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Re: Jacob Black

Postby diane771 » Thu May 28, 2009 3:31 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:I definitely agree with all that. However, we're all forgetting one thing that gives great indication that Nessie will be able to bear children - Imprinting.

Jacob imprinted on her. The point of imprinting, as far as we know, is to pass on the werewolf gene, and imprinting gives you the best candidate for you to pass that on.



I just thought it was like finding our soul mate. Because imprinting on even a bit of a vampire for werewolf gene seems to me then Jacob would not because of the history. Jacob and the wolves are not really werewolves but shapeshifters so that might be the reason that he could imprint on an enemy of the vampire. Aro said that they got rid of the Werewolfs but those were different than the pack so maybe it could be possible.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Jazz Girl » Thu May 28, 2009 4:39 pm

diane771 wrote:
holdingoutforjacob wrote:I definitely agree with all that. However, we're all forgetting one thing that gives great indication that Nessie will be able to bear children - Imprinting.

Jacob imprinted on her. The point of imprinting, as far as we know, is to pass on the werewolf gene, and imprinting gives you the best candidate for you to pass that on.



I just thought it was like finding our soul mate. Because imprinting on even a bit of a vampire for werewolf gene seems to me then Jacob would not because of the history. Jacob and the wolves are not really werewolves but shapeshifters so that might be the reason that he could imprint on an enemy of the vampire. Aro said that they got rid of the Werewolfs but those were different than the pack so maybe it could be possible.


Granted. The whole idea that imprinting was to guarantee and strengthen the genes was a theory. But, It's definitiely one that makes sense. And, you are right about the shifters vs werewolves idea. But, along that same line of thought, remember, it wasn't that werewolves and vampires were mortal enemies,it is shifters and vampires. So, Ness would be the natural enemy. Regardless, I still think the strongest evidence is the fact that Jacob imprinted on Ness in the first place. Jacob, as the true alpha male, would be the one whose genes were strongest and in most need of passing along. It just wouldn't make sense from an evolutionary standpoint for him to imprint on a being that couldn't bear children.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Dovrebanen » Thu May 28, 2009 4:41 pm

diane771 wrote:
holdingoutforjacob wrote:I definitely agree with all that. However, we're all forgetting one thing that gives great indication that Nessie will be able to bear children - Imprinting.

Jacob imprinted on her. The point of imprinting, as far as we know, is to pass on the werewolf gene, and imprinting gives you the best candidate for you to pass that on.

I just thought it was like finding our soul mate. Because imprinting on even a bit of a vampire for werewolf gene seems to me then Jacob would not because of the history. Jacob and the wolves are not really werewolves but shapeshifters so that might be the reason that he could imprint on an enemy of the vampire. Aro said that they got rid of the Werewolfs but those were different than the pack so maybe it could be possible.

I interpreted imprinting like hofj, that the point is to the secure the existence of the wolves. To create the perfect basis for continuing the wolf gene. But it is also like you said, Diane. That they find their soulmate, and that person is also the person that is best suited to carry the wolf gene on. So it's all connected, the way I see it.

I agree with what some of you have said, that if she couldn't bear children it would make no sense that Jacob would imprint on her. Jazz Girl said that Nessie seemed to be closer to human than vampire, and to an extent I agree. But she also has a lot of the vampire side in her. For instance that she drinks blood. And the non-aging thing. So I'm just not sure if she can bear children if her body doesn't change after she's 7 years old. Her body needs to change in order to have children. And..I still don't see how a half human, half vampire girl can produce the best wolves, even if we accept that she can have children. I don't see these children as beneficial to the pack.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Jazz Girl » Thu May 28, 2009 4:54 pm

Dovrebanen wrote:
diane771 wrote:
holdingoutforjacob wrote:I definitely agree with all that. However, we're all forgetting one thing that gives great indication that Nessie will be able to bear children - Imprinting.

Jacob imprinted on her. The point of imprinting, as far as we know, is to pass on the werewolf gene, and imprinting gives you the best candidate for you to pass that on.

I just thought it was like finding our soul mate. Because imprinting on even a bit of a vampire for werewolf gene seems to me then Jacob would not because of the history. Jacob and the wolves are not really werewolves but shapeshifters so that might be the reason that he could imprint on an enemy of the vampire. Aro said that they got rid of the Werewolfs but those were different than the pack so maybe it could be possible.

I interpreted imprinting like hofj, that the point is to the secure the existence of the wolves. To create the perfect basis for continuing the wolf gene. But it is also like you said, Diane. That they find their soulmate, and that person is also the person that is best suited to carry the wolf gene on. So it's all connected, the way I see it.

I agree with what some of you have said, that if she couldn't bear children it would make no sense that Jacob would imprint on her. Jazz Girl said that Nessie seemed to be closer to human than vampire, and to an extent I agree. But she also has a lot of the vampire side in her. For instance that she drinks blood. And the non-aging thing. So I'm just not sure if she can bear children if her body doesn't change after she's 7 years old. Her body needs to change in order to have children. And..I still don't see how a half human, half vampire girl can produce the best wolves, even if we accept that she can have children. I don't see these children as beneficial to the pack.


Granted, maybe my reasoning is being effected by my viewing of other mythologies. But, think about a child of Jake and Ness' like the Uruk'Hai in Lord of the Rings or Michael in Underworld. In both cases, by combining the dna and characteristics of two already uberpowerful species, a new, even stronger and more powerful being was created. In the case of the Uruk'Hai, they combined Orks and Elves. Granted, they came under the control of an evil being and became killing machines. But, the point may at least be valid. Michael was a Vampire-Lycan hybrid. Stronger and more powerful that either species individually. So, from that standpoint, a child of Ness & Jake's would be a definite improvement, evolutionarily speaking.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Openhome » Thu May 28, 2009 4:57 pm

I realize that this is a little off topic, but do you ever picture Donkey's mutant babies from Shrek when you think of the Nessie, Jacob mix? :D
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Thu May 28, 2009 5:04 pm

Well, I believe part of it is, but Sam and Billy's theory is that it's about finding the person who will best allow you to pass on the gene. Which is part of the reason it kills Leah so much that Sam imprinted on Emily. That, coupled with the fact that she thinks she's a genetic dead end.

I don't think that whether or not she's a half-vampire has anything to do with it, nor whether or not The Pack are shapeshifters or wolves. Wolves can imprint on humans right? And they have a different chromosome count, so technically they are a different species.

If we're talking about whether or not it's genetically possible for them to have kids, I think the answer is yes. I don't think that whether or not they like each other, meaning that the vampires and wolves are enemies has anything to do with the genetics of the situation.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Tonya » Thu May 28, 2009 10:25 pm

I believe that Renessmee will have the ability to bare children. Her body is capable of changing and I agree that Jacob could not have imprinted on her if she wold not be able to have kids. They need to be able to pass on the gene. I think that he imprinted on her because she was the most powerful good female "human" around. To make a super race like someone had said before. The powers that be saw an opportunity to make the Quileute's more powerful. I also think that "they" realized that the Cullens and the wolfs needed to start working together instead of trying to kill each other all the time.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Thu May 28, 2009 10:49 pm

That sounds perfectly plausible to me.

Although I do take issue with your statement that the pack and the Cullens were always trying to kill each other. I think that after Eclipse, after working together to stave off Victoria's newborn army, they had a definite peace between them. When the pack possibly wanted to attack, meaning Sam wanted to attack, it was because the Cullens were allowing something they thought of as a threat. I don't think it was so much any personal animosity. They've definitely learned to co-exist.

Has anybody PMed a mod that we need a new thread????
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Tonya » Thu May 28, 2009 11:03 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:That sounds perfectly plausible to me.

Although I do take issue with your statement that the pack and the Cullens were always trying to kill each other. I think that after Eclipse, after working together to stave off Victoria's newborn army, they had a definite peace between them. When the pack possibly wanted to attack, meaning Sam wanted to attack, it was because the Cullens were allowing something they thought of as a threat. I don't think it was so much any personal animosity. They've definitely learned to co-exist.

Has anybody PMed a mod that we need a new thread????



When I wrote that I thought of changing how it was written. They did work together in Eclipse and I was so glad that they were able to put it all aside for fight of the Newborns and save Bella from Victoria.

I guess what I meant was if Jake hadn't imprinted on Nessie then the wolves were going to try and kill her. "the powers that be" saw that this would have been a travesty, these particular vampires are not a threat we need to band together there are bigger threats out there.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby Jazz Girl » Fri May 29, 2009 12:41 am

I Pmd three mods yesterday when we were on page 103, about both this and the Bella 2 thread. I know they've at least pulled the posts out of my outbox. But, no action yet.
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