Bella Swan Cullen #3

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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby opulent » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:26 am

Okay,okay, I concede, you got me. I agree with you now that you explain what you mean. Actually, I was just now reading a passage of BD, when Eleazar and Edward are discussing the Volturi, and I started to really think about Bella. I'm not taking back what I said about her personality, but she seems a little. . .tame, especially for Bella, even under the circumstances. Pre-transformation, the worry of the situation would have had her overreacting. But now, as worried as she is for Nessie, and even giving some allowance for vampiric reactions, I still think her reactions are slightly off as far as being Bella goes.

I like Bella, I always have. I kind of miss her in BD. And you are right again, Rings. Bella was never the best at anything as a human (so she claims). Why would she suddenly be so talented at developing her powers? It's not like Bella was noted for her incredible concentration or her gung-ho attitude. And incredible self-control does not factor in with being able to control her shield right away either.

But, on the other hand, Kate's currents most likely are not a tangible thing inside her head. Bella's are. She can feel her shield, so she has more "sight" into what she's dealing with right off, correct?
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby The Dark Knight » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:36 am

There are a lot of things about this story that are unrealistic. I think SM could have had more fun with Bella's character to explore the wild side of being a newborn. The Voltaire’s could have been left for later. It seemed very unnatural to me that Bella escaped all the downsides to becoming immortal. It really took from the story line. In many ways SM let us down here, she let a lot of things fall to the way side to have a happy "quick" ending to her story. Maybe that was the problem. She had to finish the book and the series to quickly. If she just took the time she needed, even if it takes another book, things would have been better. Who knows?

Bella's changes and quicker that natural to handling the newborn state may be explained by these factors.

1) She had already been bitten by James, the poison sucked back out by Edward, but it must have done something to her.
2) She had been well briefed on what was to come thus preparing her for the worst case scenario.
3) Being Pregnant with a half vampire must also have changed the chemistry in her during that period of time.
4) Blood drinking before her changes also affected her internal chemistry.
5) Lastly she's an odd ball to begin with. Nothing works as plan with her around.

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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby Angelvamp » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:05 am

Just to keep things in perspective, we are talking about a fictional account about vampires, shape-shifters and one clumsy human girl. Of course there are unrealities! We've already suspended disbelief regarding vampires (uh oh, didn't rain on the parade, did I?). Why not the rest?
That said, I would have liked if Bella didn't get off so easily and had to deal with the newborn vampire craziness. Jasper would have too. ;) If I could add one more preperation to Dark Knight's list. Her fairly easy transformation may have to do with Bella's own personality trait of being born middle-aged. In Twilight, she said her mom said she was born middle-aged and gets older every year (or something like that). Perhaps the same thing happened when she was transformed, since it is like a rebirth. Also, she was so used to carefully controlling her emotions and reactions (especially in NM) maybe that particular trait was enhanced. Although there are many factors that could be applied to the situation, none of them seem enough to justify her ease into vampire life.
I think maybe what SM was going for is how having a child makes you become more mature. Perhaps Bella changing into a vampire was a euphamism (sp?) for growing up. Bella definitely seems more comfortable in her skin after the change, as her perception of herself is altered dramatically.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby lady4string » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:42 pm

Bella isn't the only one who seemed to have control from the beginning so it can't be entirely unrealistic in the Twilight world. Carlisle obviously had great control in his first years because he refused to dine on people. Rosalie was able to kill her killers just after being turned without drinking their blood. Maybe the difference is that Carlisle was there to guide the vamps he created where the newborns in Eclipse had no guidance from Victoria. She didn't care if they ran wild.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby SweetImpakt » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:48 pm

lady4string wrote:Bella isn't the only one who seemed to have control from the beginning so it can't be entirely unrealistic in the Twilight world. Carlisle obviously had great control in his first years because he refused to dine on people. Rosalie was able to kill her killers just after being turned without drinking their blood. Maybe the difference is that Carlisle was there to guide the vamps he created where the newborns in Eclipse had no guidance from Victoria. She didn't care if they ran wild.


Victoria's vampires aren't the only ones that run wild in their first years. I'm sure Emmett and Esme and all of them except Carlisle were also quiet wild. But they were guided to keep a bit of control and to know the difference between what they can and shouldn't do. I don't think it was Victoria's intention to let them run wild like that, because she probably will have realized that it could bring the Volturi down on her. She just couldn't control so many superstrong vampires on her own.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby ringswraith » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:49 pm

You have an excellent point. But Carlisle went to extremes those first few... however long it was, until he jumped that deer. He left town, refused to go anywhere near people- and in his famished state he even recognized that he wanted to feed on humans and his willpower was fading. I don't have my books with me- I'm sure Carlisle had some influence with Rosalie, but I forget when she actually stalked Royce.

We don't see that with Bella. It was: smell humans, chase humans, chase gets interrupted, realization sets in, she runs away- and she never has a problem with humans again. I'm not counting the time Charlie comes over- there were several factors keeping her in line.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby Dovrebanen » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:34 pm

ringswraith wrote:You have an excellent point. But Carlisle went to extremes those first few... however long it was, until he jumped that deer. He left town, refused to go anywhere near people- and in his famished state he even recognized that he wanted to feed on humans and his willpower was fading. I don't have my books with me- I'm sure Carlisle had some influence with Rosalie, but I forget when she actually stalked Royce.

We don't see that with Bella. It was: smell humans, chase humans, chase gets interrupted, realization sets in, she runs away- and she never has a problem with humans again. I'm not counting the time Charlie comes over- there were several factors keeping her in line.

Not to forget, Carlisle also tried every way possible to kill himself. So he was clearly struggeling with his cravings, unlike Bella who was able to stop on her very first hunt. I think Carlisle had a great influence on Rosalie. She has never tasted human blood either. She did kill Royce and his friends, but without spilling their blood since she couldn't stand to have him inside her. Going by this, I assume that if she had spilled his blood the frenzy would have begun. I don't know how newborn she was when she went after Royce, but I always assumed that she didn't wait long. But maybe she did spend a year as a crazy newborn first? Anyway, it is admireable that she never tasted it.

I agree with Dark Knight, that this could have been a way for SM to end the books on a good note. Because she needed room for all the other things she wanted to write about. And when she chose to have Nessie born, SM was sort of obliged to make Bella's transition easy, so that she could care for her daughter.

But when Bella became a vampire, it was a dream come true. And that is why I think she had an easy transition. When she became a vampire, she got everything she wanted. She was prepared and she wanted it. She had wanted it for a long time. She knew what to expect, and she was ready for it. When the others were changed, they didn't know what was going on and they certainly didn't want it. They had no preparation for the new life.

I actually think it was okay that Bella was a perfect newborn. I liked that she was actually good at something from the start. And I think Edward deserved to see her make an easy transition. What I didn't like was that they brought Charlie into the life of Bella and Nessie. That was just to weird. He must notice that something is odd. And how can he not question that? It doesn't make sense to me. And I think it would have been more fitting if she at least lost something in the process of becoming a vampire.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby opulent » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:03 pm

I agree with Dovrebanen - while I do wish that we could have seen Bella's potential "wild side", I still like the way the story turned out. But I still miss the Bella we know and love. Y'know, I just realized. . .what I really miss is the way Bella really thought about Edward when she was human. The way she was obsessed with him. . .while she still is post-transformation, it's not to the same extent. We don't get the depth of feeling out of Bella that we are accustomed to, even though Bella explicitly states that her feelings are much stronger as a vampire, it isn't the same. And I miss it. Maybe if she was a normal newborn, things might not have been so. . .tame for her. Maybe. Okay, probably not.

Okay, new question: When Bella is shielding everyone at the "battle" scene with the Volturi, why can she feel Jane's attacks on her shields? She couldn't feel anything Jane was doing previously. Any thoughts?
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby Jazz Girl » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:35 pm

First, let me say, I agree with Dovrebanen. I never saw Bella's ease of transformation as out of character at all. I loved that she was "good" at being a vampire. I always put a lot of credence in what Bella says, that it was like she was born to be a vampire. It starts with her transformation. From the moment the venom starts to work on her system, Bella shows an extraordinary amount of control. She is able to lock down her body and her mind, remain in herself in order not to cry out. It continues from there, her control and mastery of all things vampiric. So, I guess it never really surprised me that she would be able to have this kind of control. And, yes, I think it was wonderful for Edward that Bella's transformation and vampiric nature were easy. Maybe that was a little gift from SM to Edward, that he would not have to, after suffering through 2 years of resisting Bella, accepting that he would in fact have to transform her and then the whole ordeal with the pregnancy, he did not also have to suffer through Bella's newborn craze.

As to the factors Dark Knight mentions, I think her preparation and desire had the most to do with it. We do not ever hear of another newborn who was prepared the way Bella was. She spent almost 2 years contemplating becoming a vampire, wanting it and fighting for it with everything she was. That had to play a role. I also agree that Ness might have had something to do with it. Normally, I would say all of the pregnancy hormones might have exacerbated the whole experience. After all, any woman who's been pregnant can tell you how crazy hose things will make you. But, just like DK says, Bella never really reacted to anything the typical way. Maybe, just maybe, this is another one of those situations.

As for Opulent's question about why Bella could feel Jane's attacks on her shield, I think it had to do with two things. First, focus. Bella was focused very intensely and clearly on protecting her family with the shield, on identifying any little opening that might allow the Volturi a chance. She was looking for a weakness to make sure that she was still functioning as a shield for everyone. Plus, when she first met Jane, she wasn't even aware of ther shield and she was highly emotional and agitated. She might have felt the same sensation but been completely unaware of it because of everything else going on. It was just one more strange uncomfortable sensation in a world of scary and pain.

Also, the shield was normally just clustered around her. That made it thicker, for lack of a better term. When it was stretched out, the it was thinner, making changes to it more perceptible. Think of it this way. Take a sheet and hang it up. Then throw a nerf or small ball at it. Then double it up and do the same thing. And again, and again. The more times you fold the sheet and thicken it, the less perceptible the impact of the ball, even if it is thrown the same strength, or even harder.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Postby Angelvamp » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:49 pm

opulent wrote:Okay, new question: When Bella is shielding everyone at the "battle" scene with the Volturi, why can she feel Jane's attacks on her shields? She couldn't feel anything Jane was doing previously. Any thoughts?


It may be because, as a human, she had no control over her shield. In fact, no one was aware of it at all until Eleazar brought it up to Edward. When she was transformed and her shielding ability became augmented, it may have had some impact on her being able to sense it as well as develop it further.

Something that happened late in BD was bothering me about Bella's sheild. When she is first made aware that she has a shielding ability, Kate asks her if she can project it. Bella gets so excited about the thought of protecting Renesmee and Edward from Jane that she grabs Kate's arm and insists on being taught how. Kate is using her ability and projecting a current on her skin that should have shocked Bella, but it doesn't work on her at all. But Bella's ability was only effective for mental defense, not physical. So, what happened? It doesn't sound like Kate's ability is purely mental, yet Bella is immune?
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