The Volturi Coven and Guard

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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:40 am

Actually they are not as nasty as you patray them.

By all rights no Cullens or any of there helpers should be alive. No matter the cost they should all have been put down. In fact even the ones that Aro wanted to collect should have burnt up in a purple pyres. This is what should have happened and if they have any Macheaveli in them they will do it. Order is not maintained by a show of weakness. The Cullens are a signal to the rest of the Vampires that the Voltari are weak. In the predetor world only the strong survive. This is the world they live in. Yes a bit more rough than the world we live in but not as nasty as that which is found in Dafur. They have to be more cruel and more harsh to maintain their fragile world. Without them what would the world be like?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but are you part of a monarchy? Because I find it interesting that you bring this up when it really doesn't help either side- unless you have noble blood you haven't mentioned.


Well, you can PM me and I'll give you some background on this...might prove intersting to you...

Judging by Jasper's tone when he retold his story- none. You're talking about an organized group- some with powers beyond the normal vampire- versus armies of newborns. The Cullens fought against the newborn army in Eclipse and all we saw was that Jasper got a few bites. So, the Volturi guard had no losses, made no sacrifices. Heck, the twins alone would be more than a match for any newborn army.


Don't forget the Daniel coven has a much founder view and so does Jasper than you are depicting. They respect the Voltari for their brand of Justice... Acutally we have no idea of their loses as SM does not give an account of their campaigns They may have face some very formitable foes that kill more than just a few of them. So we both can speculate...

Reinforce their position as the (un)official rulers (not leaders) of vampiredom. Which resulted in the destruction of the Romanian vampires save for the two survivors.


Symantics; rulers or leaders...rather the same thing in the broader scope of time they have been around.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby ringswraith » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:17 am

...
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:30 pm

DK, your logic is faulty.

The Volturi are self-indulgent and selfish and greedy, not stupid. They would never outright attack the Cullens or any other organized, well-connected coven. That would incite rebellion that they know they may not be able to quell, and would completely shatter their image as "keeping the secret." They know that there are certain appearances that they have to keep up, at least until they have the strength to overpower EVERYONE, which, as of yet, they do not.

However, the fact remains that they are using their power for their own devices - i.e. Aro's collection. They are not evil, maybe, but quite self-serving. They are not nasty, maybe, but they certainly care more for their power than for their mission or for the people they are supposed to lead.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby diane771 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:18 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:DK, your logic is faulty.

The Volturi are self-indulgent and selfish and greedy, not stupid. They would never outright attack the Cullens or any other organized, well-connected coven. That would incite rebellion that they know they may not be able to quell, and would completely shatter their image as "keeping the secret." They know that there are certain appearances that they have to keep up, at least until they have the strength to overpower EVERYONE, which, as of yet, they do not.

However, the fact remains that they are using their power for their own devices - i.e. Aro's collection. They are not evil, maybe, but quite self-serving. They are not nasty, maybe, but they certainly care more for their power than for their mission or for the people they are supposed to lead.


Well maybe you don't believe that they would not kill the Cullens I for one do feel that they would have in BD and if Benjemin and the others like him and Bella to stop them they would have killed. Remember the fog coming that was goimg to paralysis them? I have no doubt without Bella and Ben and few others, they all would have died. So yes they would outright attack any coven at anytime they want to. I think the way they keep showing up and by the end of BD should have made that point clear, their arrogance and vanity out weighed their self image and clouds their judgement. I get this opinion from BD when they knew that Renesmee was not a threat, yet they continued to try and kill everybody, and they would have killed their own witnesses if they had not ran. It pretty much says so so for leadership I give them a big fat F
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:21 pm

Oops you misunderstood. I meant unprovoked.

DK had said that if the Volturi were that evil they would have already taken down the Cullens and all the other powerful vampires. I'm saying that to do this unprovoked would be a bad move for them and they know it. I'm sure they'd like to though, their quickness to jump at the chance and also the difficulty with which they convinced them not to attack shows that.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby diane771 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:31 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:Oops you misunderstood. I meant unprovoked.

DK had said that if the Volturi were that evil they would have already taken down the Cullens and all the other powerful vampires. I'm saying that to do this unprovoked would be a bad move for them and they know it. I'm sure they'd like to though, their quickness to jump at the chance and also the difficulty with which they convinced them not to attack shows that.


Well if Alice could not read the future, then they would have come and wiped out the Cullens unprovoded and for no reason. They even had enough arrogance to even try to kill everyone who was only a witness for the Cullens, That to me would be a bad move, but the Volturi didn't care about that. They came looking to kill the Cullens and when they arrived they found other vampires and the wolves and still finding out that Nessie wasn't a harm tried to kill them all . So without Alice things would have been exactly unprovoked and just evil and they would not have blinked an eye. Its going to really get good to see how the directers are going to protray the Volturi, I can't wait and in Breaking Dawn that will be something the Cullens and their freinds against the Volturi and their witnesses.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:35 pm

Yes but in Breaking Dawn, they at least had a reason they could spread - legitimate or otherwise. What I'm saying is that they wouldn't have dared to attack organized covens without some sort of reasoning they could give.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby diane771 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:45 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:Yes but in Breaking Dawn, they at least had a reason they could spread - legitimate or otherwise. What I'm saying is that they wouldn't have dared to attack organized covens without some sort of reasoning they could give.



Ok I buy that, even if their reason is lame to everyone else to them its a reason :) But I guess that is the way the conquerer gets his conquest.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby The Dark Knight » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:04 am

Ok have several things to answer...

by ringswraith No, they would not have been killed. What was their transgression? An immortal child, as was the Volturi's "reason" for being there? It should have been a small number of the Guard that showed up. Not the Volturi, plus their wives (who by all accounts, never leave their tower), plus a large group of witnesses. No, the Dark Knight- what the Volturi were doing in Forks was nothing remotely similar to any of this maintenance of the status quo you preach. Aro wanted Alice, maybe Edward and Bella- and was willing to lie, cheat, and kill in order to do it. So, who broke the rules here? What kind of leader is that? The Cullens were never a threat to the Volturi.


The Voltaire have several transgressions readily available to the. The Cullen’s have broken the rule of no human should know of vampires...Bella, Charlie, The Quileute nation and all the Shape shifters. Further the Cullen’s are consorting with shape-shifters which are not OK in the Vampire world, you may say its splitting hair but it would stand. They even can make a point that their lifestyle is inappropriate for the Vampires. Really, they can claim anything they want once everyone is dead. To the victor the right to write history.

by ringswraith well, in light of my question I am led to conclude that you are of noble blood. Which probably diminishes my opinion somewhat, but unless you're about to PM me that you've led a country for many years... /shrug


I would have preferred a private conversation but oh well. Just a commoner of the common nation of the Unites States of America, that being said your original question was if I lived under a monarchy. For the past 20+ years I have been a member of a Medieval Society called the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA.org). One of the main points in this group is their are kingdoms throughout the known world. We choose of royalty as it is, by combat. Let me just say that in that time I have risen to the top 5% in rank. So when I speak of this I do have some knowledge.

by ringswraith Not entirely correct. Again, you're comparing newborns to vampires that actually know what they're doing. I gave the example of the Cullen’s fighting the newborns in Eclipse- and that was a resounding victory for a coven that does not typically resort to violence. What more an organized Guard? One with both Jane and Alec in it? Sorry, but I have to believe that the Volturi are feared and somewhat respected for this reason- the sheer decimation they wrought on the newborn armies with no losses of their own.


Your view is correct now, but it is very unlikely the Voltaire have had the upper hand in all their engagements throughout history. Alex & Jane are not that old...They are likely to have had to get their hands dirty at some point and even had loses. Remember the Romanians where the rulers once, they was not likely a bloodless conquest.

by ringswraith In the broader scope, sure. In the scope of this discussion, no. When I say "ruling" I mean "sitting around on their thrones wondering what to acquire or kill next."


This reminds me of Ming the Murderous from Flash Gordon (the 80 film version) "Titus, I'm bore. What new play thing do you have for me today." :lol:

by holdingoutforjacob DK, your logic is faulty.

The Volturi are self-indulgent and selfish and greedy, not stupid. They would never outright attack the Cullen’s or any other organized, well-connected coven. That would incite rebellion that they know they may not be able to quell, and would completely shatter their image as "keeping the secret." They know that there are certain appearances that they have to keep up, at least until they have the strength to overpower EVERYONE, which, as of yet, they do not.

However, the fact remains that they are using their power for their own devices - i.e. Aro's collection. They are not evil, maybe, but quite self-serving. They are not nasty, maybe, but they certainly care more for their power than for their mission or for the people they are supposed to lead.


You do make a few points her. Why risk asset now when you can pick them off one by one later. I'm sure Aro was thinking of that. Fall upon them later when they are not united.

Here's a fact of life that we all better get used to, "Self interest governs all." The "WIIFM: What's in it for me" is and remains the leading driving factor for all beings. So pointing the finger at the Voltaire and saying their "Self Serving" is a bit rash given the above principle. Case in point, if we really cared about humanity, we do something about "Darfur." My logic is not faulty, but rather inconvenient to look at.

diane771 Well maybe you don't believe that they would not kill the Cullen’s I for one do feel that they would have in BD and if Benjemin and the others like him and Bella to stop them they would have killed. Remember the fog coming that was goimg to paralysis them? I have no doubt without Bella and Ben and few others, they all would have died. So yes they would outright attack any coven at anytime they want to. I think the way they keep showing up and by the end of BD should have made that point clear, their arrogance and vanity out weighed their self image and clouds their judgement. I get this opinion from BD when they knew that Renesmee was not a threat, yet they continued to try and kill everybody, and they would have killed their own witnesses if they had not ran. It pretty much says so so for leadership I give them a big fat F


I agree with you Diane that they would have killed everyone not with them if given the slightest chance to. They are likely planning their revenge as we speak. As for leadership, you give them an "F," really they have lasted for nearly 2000 years in power that at least rates a B+...


by holdingoutforjacob DK had said that if the Volturi were that evil they would have already taken down the Cullen’s and all the other powerful vampires. I'm saying that to do this unprovoked would be a bad move for them and they know it. I'm sure they'd like to though, their quickness to jump at the chance and also the difficulty with which they convinced them not to attack shows that.


They don't need a reason to take anyone down. No one is able to do anything about them right now anyway. They can write the outcome and reason afterward. Who would say anything about it? Read above they have plenty of reasons to wipe out the Cullen’s and their allies...
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby ringswraith » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:27 am

...
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