The Volturi Coven and Guard

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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby The Dark Knight » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:40 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:You're exactly right. But taking that background knowledge, then assuming you know better than the evidence presented to you in the books is not conducive to exploring new opinions.


Or it's educational
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:49 pm

Obviously that background knowledge is educational, I never said it wasn't. But in discussion of these characters in these books, other than for comparison and such, as Diane so diplomatically pointed out, it doesn't actually make you that much better informed.

Regardless, I now know where you are getting your information, which is what I asked for.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby dandyvampgirl_13 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:04 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:Your welcome to believe what you want, but remember you asked me what sources I had that gave me the insights I had. You did not specify SM books only. I answered the question you ask.

He has a valid point there. However, DK, you were being a little condescending, so stop looking down your nose like you're Snape. You also need to remember some of us aren't as versed in literature classics- is The Art Of War really standard curriculum in any public high school? I'm fairly certain she wouldn't have studied it in BYU English. I would know a bit about that, seeing as my mother graduated from BYU in English and was in the same year or so as Stephenie. However, since I'm not Stephenie, have only met her once, and don't personally know her, I can't really say what she may or may not have read. She could have read it, or studied some of its basic topics as background for her coven of bad guys, but I think not likely. Its somewhat easy to figure out how or how not to rule by looking at closer to home examples.
And I know I've never read that, or the Prince. The closest I've come to studying military and politics is Ender's Game, which most people think doesn't count.

Applause to Diane the Diplomat.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby The Dark Knight » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:50 am

dandyvampgirl_13 wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:Your welcome to believe what you want, but remember you asked me what sources I had that gave me the insights I had. You did not specify SM books only. I answered the question you ask.

He has a valid point there. However, DK, you were being a little condescending, so stop looking down your nose like you're Snape. You also need to remember some of us aren't as versed in literature classics- is The Art Of War really standard curriculum in any public high school? I'm fairly certain she wouldn't have studied it in BYU English. I would know a bit about that, seeing as my mother graduated from BYU in English and was in the same year or so as Stephenie. However, since I'm not Stephenie, have only met her once, and don't personally know her, I can't really say what she may or may not have read. She could have read it, or studied some of its basic topics as background for her coven of bad guys, but I think not likely. Its somewhat easy to figure out how or how not to rule by looking at closer to home examples.
And I know I've never read that, or the Prince. The closest I've come to studying military and politics is Ender's Game, which most people think doesn't count.

Applause to Diane the Diplomat.


But I Idolize Snape...

The Art of War was standard reading for those in JROTC classes in HS. Haven't been in HS for a couple of decades now so I have no idea what the current practices are. The Prince was standard in most political studies classes in College as we didn't have those classes in HS. The Five Rings is not standard to my knowledge unless you have Asia studies where it does help greatly to understand Japanese History and the shoot Code. Just to help clarify a bit more.

I am uncertain what SM classes or pursuits are at BYU, I can only speak to the standard practices in Scottsdale HS system. As I stated there they like to a classical education of sorts. Not that I like most of the books I had to read. I would also agree that SM having different teachers would have had different books pushed as each one of my English teachers had their version of the classis they wanted up to read. Really hated having the theater teacher in my sophomore year (Tons of Shakespeare). The required mono-logging was especially scaring.

For your information, I am a vet from the first Gulf War with quiet a bit of military and political education. Each of us have what we bring to the table, no more no less. The gift we can give on the lex is sharing that with which we have to give. If my confidence comes across as condescending I apologies.

Let us start a new topic on the Volturi, anyone have a topic?
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby diane771 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:51 am

I salute you for serving our country. I have the first Gulf War I think all on video tape if you want I can check it out, who knows maybe you're in it too. What branch of service if I may ask? Well your perspective of the Volturi is different from a lot of people who have read the books so you do bring new idea's to the table. But I really can't see SM studing that hard on that subject maybe some, and if she writes more she might but her books were based on a love story and she wanted the good guys, the bad guys and well define line between them.. Your imput is welcome and interesting but I wonder maybe SM talk to someone in the military or something about it. Don't know so I can only speculate, if she writes another book I think what ever topic it will contain will be researched more because of the media out there and all the attention she is getting. I remember the author of Harry Potter taking a lot of unconstructive criticism (is that even a word?) anyway now she is richer than the Queen of England. Who would of thunk it. :D
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby The Dark Knight » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:51 am

diane771 wrote:I salute you for serving our country. I have the first Gulf War I think all on video tape if you want I can check it out, who knows maybe you're in it too. What branch of service if I may ask? Well your perspective of the Volturi is different from a lot of people who have read the books so you do bring new idea's to the table. But I really can't see SM studing that hard on that subject maybe some, and if she writes more she might but her books were based on a love story and she wanted the good guys, the bad guys and well define line between them.. Your imput is welcome and interesting but I wonder maybe SM talk to someone in the military or something about it. Don't know so I can only speculate, if she writes another book I think what ever topic it will contain will be researched more because of the media out there and all the attention she is getting. I remember the author of Harry Potter taking a lot of unconstructive criticism (is that even a word?) anyway now she is richer than the Queen of England. Who would of thunk it. :D


Army Recon, I doubt that I'm on any tape...not where I spent my time leading up to and during the ground war. Only saw one camera man the entire time I was in Country and that was very early on. I did see a lot of action in a very short period of time, but that's another story.

As for SM being well verse, I tend to think she had a cursory knowledge as she make several fundamental mistakes from a military and political view point. Her strong suite is the love story and dialog there unto. I think we can all agree she hits those spot on.

I am glad JK Rowling’s and SM both hit it big. It gives hope to everyone that if they try to put their inspiration to paper/PC they can make it...

Now to the Volturi thread, what is the biggest mistake you think they made?
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby diane771 » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:47 pm

Letting their ego's in the way of common sense. Thinking that they were gods instead of just suppose to keep order in the vampire world.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby opulent » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:28 pm

Yeah, but a lot of rulers/dictators out there think they are gods and they do just fine. . .To be more specific, I think they made the mistake of being overconfident in their strength, and then trying to come up with any lame excuse instead of retreating and trying again later.

Their overconfidence lead to them trying out any excuse. I think that one seriously hurt their rep, because not only have the Cullen's friends seen the Volturi's hypocrisy and thirst for power, but the Volturi's witnesses have seen it too. They would have been better off to retreat and try later, rather than disillusioning a bunch of their former endorsers.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:03 am

What the Volturi did in BD was the kind of stunt you can only pull once. They've lost their credibility to the friends of the Cullens, and possibly/probably sowed the first seeds of doubt in the heads of their followers.

Ahhh hubris. What a lovely Greek concept.
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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:24 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:What the Volturi did in BD was the kind of stunt you can only pull once. They've lost their credibility to the friends of the Cullens, and possibly/probably sowed the first seeds of doubt in the heads of their followers.

Ahhh hubris. What a lovely Greek concept.



I to love the word Hubris...The biggest mistake to date is leaving their enemies alive...The Romanians and now the Cullens...Not good form for a ruler that needs to rule with fear and intimidation...
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