Edward Cullen #6

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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:02 am

moon sidhe wrote:Ermm.. Mostly I think he's just arrogant. I don't think it's a mask for anything. It just is. hehe.


Oh really, do pray tell why you don't think his arogence is masking his fear? This should prove interesting in deed> :)
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby moon sidhe » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:08 pm

Well, I suppose I never saw him as fearful at all. Depressed and self-loathing for sure, but not fearful. He's arrogant because he always thinks he's right. There are multiple instances when he refuses to try to understand other points of view, because as far as he's concerned, his is the only one that matters. And that's not him "masking" anything, that's just him being complètement con. I mean, I suppose you could say that some of those decisions are motivated by fear for Bella's life. He's afraid that he'll hurt Bella. He's afraid that Jacob will hurt Bella. And those fears led to some dumb decisions in which he refused to understand Bella's POV.

Other than a fear of Bella being harmed though, I don't see how he was particularly fearful. I might be able to see an argument for some of his perceived arrogant behavior being a result of his depression/self-loathing, but not a mask of it. Because he doesn't try to hide the fact that he hates himself. Everyone pretty much knows it.
Last edited by moon sidhe on Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:33 pm

moon sidhe wrote:Well, I suppose I never saw him as fearful at all. Depressed and self-loathing for sure, but not fearful. He's arrogant because he always thinks he's right. There are multiple instances when he refuses to try to understand other points of view, because as far as he's concerned, his is the only one that matters. And that's not him "masking" anything, that's just him being complètement con. I mean, I suppose you could say that some of those decisions are motivated by fear for Bella's life. He's afraid that he'll hurt Bella. He's afraid that Jacob will hurt Bella. And those fears led to some dumb decisions in which he refused to understand Bella's POV.

Other than a fear of Bella being harmed though, I don't see how he was particularly fearful. I might be able to see an argument for some of his perceived arrogant behavior being a result of his depression/self-loathing, but not a mask of it. Because he doesn't try to hide the fact that he hates himself. Everyone pretty much knows it.


So the fear of him being the monster that he was is not there? He doesn't do anything to hide that, nothing at all, got I love sarcasim...How about the fear of disappointing Carlisle? Of his family being discovered..yep no fear at all...
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:19 pm

Well, DK, we were discussing what defines Edward. I think Edward is fearful, I think everyone's fearful of some things. But I also don't think it defines him at all. Also, just because he has fear and arrogance does not mean one is a mask for the other.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby moon sidhe » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:39 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:So the fear of him being the monster that he was is not there? He doesn't do anything to hide that, nothing at all, got I love sarcasim...How about the fear of disappointing Carlisle? Of his family being discovered..yep no fear at all...


I was attempting to make a distinction, DK, between self-hatred and fear. They're two different emotions. I think he was defined a hell of a lot more by hating himself, than he was by fear of anything. Like I said, the only thing I saw him truly fearing was hurting Bella. I don't really see what those other things you mention have to do with fear either. For example, I want to live up to my Dad's expectations, but I wouldn't call it a fear for me. I don't want to disappoint my family in general, but this desire is not at all motivated by fear. So for Edward, I don't think his desire to live up to Carlisle's standards, or his desire to protect his family is motivated by fear. He loves them, and he wants to be able to do right by them.

holdingoutforjacob wrote:Well, DK, we were discussing what defines Edward. I think Edward is fearful, I think everyone's fearful of some things. But I also don't think it defines him at all. Also, just because he has fear and arrogance does not mean one is a mask for the other.


I agree. I don't think he's defined by it on any level. He may be fearful of hurting Bella. He may be arrogant. But those are two separate issues, for the most part.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:42 am

moon sidhe wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:So the fear of him being the monster that he was is not there? He doesn't do anything to hide that, nothing at all, got I love sarcasim...How about the fear of disappointing Carlisle? Of his family being discovered..yep no fear at all...


I was attempting to make a distinction, DK, between self-hatred and fear. They're two different emotions. I think he was defined a hell of a lot more by hating himself, than he was by fear of anything. Like I said, the only thing I saw him truly fearing was hurting Bella. I don't really see what those other things you mention have to do with fear either. For example, I want to live up to my Dad's expectations, but I wouldn't call it a fear for me. I don't want to disappoint my family in general, but this desire is not at all motivated by fear. So for Edward, I don't think his desire to live up to Carlisle's standards, or his desire to protect his family is motivated by fear. He loves them, and he wants to be able to do right by them.

holdingoutforjacob wrote:Well, DK, we were discussing what defines Edward. I think Edward is fearful, I think everyone's fearful of some things. But I also don't think it defines him at all. Also, just because he has fear and arrogance does not mean one is a mask for the other.


I agree. I don't think he's defined by it on any level. He may be fearful of hurting Bella. He may be arrogant. But those are two separate issues, for the most part.



I concede that self-hatred and fear are two different factors, they even have differetn effects given the same cause. However, I do still hold that Edward main driving force in life is Fear. It's what keeps him form doing things, It's what kept him from living fully and it's what Bella takes from him after her transformation.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:45 am

If that's what you think, that's cool. But originally you said his arrogance was a mask for his fear?
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:06 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:If that's what you think, that's cool. But originally you said his arrogance was a mask for his fear?

self loathing and arrogance is also two different things. His arrogance does mask his fears, it's an over compensation technique...put the ward out to hide the truth...
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:38 pm

I totally disagree. If he were using his arrogance to mask his fears than the arrogance would be an affect rather than an actual part of who he is.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:02 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:I totally disagree. If he were using his arrogance to mask his fears than the arrogance would be an affect rather than an actual part of who he is.



That depends on how long the mask is in place, after a few years you beging to believe the lie you put on...it becomes part of who you are and what see in the mirror. That does not make it true but rahter a way of life. So is it not possible for one to make part of his matrix a lie? He has a hundred years to convence himself after all...
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