Edward Cullen #6

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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby spicey16 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:58 pm

i dont agree that his arrogance masks anything. I think he genuinely thinks that he is smarter than the people around him. He thinks that he knows best, whether it be to protect bella or the family secret, he doesnt take other peoples opinions into consideration, or if he does then he always assumes them wrong and goes with his own. but honestly, I am happy that edward has faults... i really didnt like him that much at first because he did no wrong and was too perfect, then i read the excerpt where he couldnt cook and i fell in love!!! and then in some of the other books i realized that he isnt perfect and that, to me, makes him more relatable and therefore more desirable. i'm pretty sure i have a codependency problem haha
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:35 pm

spicey16 wrote:i dont agree that his arrogance masks anything. I think he genuinely thinks that he is smarter than the people around him. He thinks that he knows best, whether it be to protect bella or the family secret, he doesnt take other peoples opinions into consideration, or if he does then he always assumes them wrong and goes with his own. but honestly, I am happy that edward has faults... i really didnt like him that much at first because he did no wrong and was too perfect, then i read the excerpt where he couldnt cook and i fell in love!!! and then in some of the other books i realized that he isnt perfect and that, to me, makes him more relatable and therefore more desirable. i'm pretty sure i have a codependency problem haha


What do you mean thinks he is smarter than everyone around him, he knows it...isn't arrogance the false assumption that one is superior? If that is the case then he is not arrogant at all, just plain right... ;) O'lord it's hard to be humble when your perfect in every way.... :o

Do we need another love fest?
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby RebeccaCullen » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:19 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:What do you mean thinks he is smarter than everyone around him, he knows it...isn't arrogance the false assumption that one is superior? If that is the case then he is not arrogant at all, just plain right... ;) O'lord it's hard to be humble when your perfect in every way.... :o

According to MW, you're right about the arrogance thing; it is a superiority complex.

The Dark Knight wrote:Do we need another love fest?

If it is, you may want to back away slowly from the thread.

spicey16 wrote:I think he genuinely thinks that he is smarter than the people around him.

I call that mind reading and having far too much time on his hands preBella.

I mean, he really didn't have anything to do with the limitless time on his hands living with three other couples other then to learn new things before he met someone who caught his attention, and there is only so much you could do with that much time on your hands before you build up a complex, IMO. His I-know-best attitude was right when he told Bella it was best that they didn't associate together (hello, they are the living dead), and it was spot on when he left in New Moon after the birthday accident.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:50 am

RebeccaCullen wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:What do you mean thinks he is smarter than everyone around him, he knows it...isn't arrogance the false assumption that one is superior? If that is the case then he is not arrogant at all, just plain right... ;) O'lord it's hard to be humble when your perfect in every way.... :o

According to MW, you're right about the arrogance thing; it is a superiority complex.

The Dark Knight wrote:Do we need another love fest?

If it is, you may want to back away slowly from the thread.

spicey16 wrote:I think he genuinely thinks that he is smarter than the people around him.

I call that mind reading and having far too much time on his hands preBella.

I mean, he really didn't have anything to do with the limitless time on his hands living with three other couples other then to learn new things before he met someone who caught his attention, and there is only so much you could do with that much time on your hands before you build up a complex, IMO. His I-know-best attitude was right when he told Bella it was best that they didn't associate together (hello, they are the living dead), and it was spot on when he left in New Moon after the birthday accident.


So how can he be classified as arrogant if the fact is he is smarter than everyone around him. Arrogance denotes false sense of superiority, but if it's true he's not arrogant but rather just superior...So if we call him arrogant are we cutting him down to feel better about ourselves in a way? Is that just? Where is Diane at, she would love this discussion...

When looking at the complex character of Edward we get to see a few characteristic that may appear to be one thing when they are in fact another all together...
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:02 am

Ok,

I've been mulling this one over for a day or so. Here goes, the only real thing that I can attribute to SM religious believes is this. Edward crucible in this life is Bella. Let me explain in detail. Edward was unable to be with any other women vamp or not because of his gift of mind reading. How could one live with hearing all the crazy thoughts of ones spouse, heck just being in the room with them sometimes is a choir. Life is what it is. So "God" sent Bella to Edward as a test of faith. I know touchy subject but let me finish before you spike me up for the night. Bella is the perfect women for Edward, he can't hear her thoughts giving them both some peace of mind but she is also his singer.

So the double edge sword of the crucible comes into play. Edward has but two choices before him. The high road where he overcomes the monster within and get's the girl of his dreams as a reward or he takes the low road giving into his base self and consumes her. What a test of personal faith? Not unlike the Garden of Jasimany (sp?)

Maybe this is one of the contributing factors for all those Edward lovers out there? Any thoughts?
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:39 am

I'd prefer to jump back to his arrogance. Once again, DK, you're not seeing the entire story. His feelings of superiority over others on an intelligence level is justified. But first of all, arrogance, to me, is an attitude rather than a fact - just because you're smarter doesn't mean you have to be arrogant. Also, remember that his arrogance doesn't just flow from academia. Edward feels he knows best in general - i.e. what is best for others without really consulting them.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby una » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:27 pm

I agree that Edward is intelligent. He is brilliant because he has had the time to study. He is VERY book smart. Also, due to his mind reading ability he has an incredible insight into people and situations. However, interactions with people are not concrete like book smarts, it's more along the lines of chaos theory. So Edward is arrogant in his choice to treat everything as he would book knowledge. He "I know best" attitude when it comes to his relationship with Bella (and other people) isn't him being superior in intelligence, it is arrogance because when dealing with people there is no right and wrong course of action...it's too fluid and flexible. This is where I see him as arrogant, when he thinks he knows what is best for others and just does things. Is he right, sure, sometimes he is but I see that as luck because sometimes he is wrong. Bella is the one who teaches that to him.

Your second question Dark Knight is an interesting one. If we take the idea of fate/religion/etc into this, I could see Bella as being his personal test. We all have had our share of personal struggles - but to think of the ultimate struggle, the one that could define you. As much as Edward thinks of himself as a monster and the debate (we assume) he has had with Carlisle on their redemption/evilness - this could have been his test to prove whether he is the monster he proclaims or if the vampire kind is redeemable...that they can have a sense of salvation.

And silly - no one is going to be spiking anyone up. This is a discussion, we are all free to discuss, share ideas and opinions (provided we follow the "rules", ie: the manifesto/posting regulations). And as we like to be respected (even if disagreed with) we need to respect each other. I'm new to this thread/forum but I must say I am enjoying it. You all have very interesting and intriguing ideas and thoughts.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby Dovrebanen » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:24 pm

I haven't been on here in a while...

Edward's flaw is his arrogance. I don't see it as having anything to do with his superior intelligence at all. Because that is unquestionable. He is smart. But he is arrogant in situations that has nothing to with his intelligence or other people's intelligence.
I agree, Una, that in situations where there are differences of opinon, he chooses his own way. And he doesn't listen to others. It doesn't matter if he is actually right or not. What matters is that he needs to take the point of view of others into consideration. That's what makes him arrogant in dealing with Bella going to La Push. He may very well be right in that there is danger, but he just won't listen to Bella (or anyone else for that matter).
I do think that his increased mental abilities makes him think that he knows best. His mind can process so much more in a short amount of time than any human mind can. So he'll think that he knows best, in most situations.

DK - I am not sure how much SM intended Bella to be percieved as a test for Edward. It is an interesting theory. Again..I'm not a religious person, so it is practically impossible for me to answer. I don't necessarily think that SM intended it that way, but it is interesting. I do think that all of Edward's existence was a test to the monster in him. Every day he had to make the choice to stay away from human blood. And this choice had made him stronger day by day, so when the time came that Bella walked into his life, he was more prepared for the temptation than anyone. He did come close to killing her, but the fact that he didn't shows just how far he had come.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby diane771 » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:43 pm

Edward may seem arrogant to some people, but to me he is not. When he is at school people think he is arrogant because he shy's away from humans. Well lets say he didn't , If another guy was goofing around and went over and tried to push him, that might cause a little problem. He could not particapate in any sports because he was a vampire, he wouldn't risk someone seeing how cold his skin is, and I could go on about the School aspects of Arrogance in Edward. As in his family I do not see any arrogance there. In previous post Jasper was brought up and with no real reason to come to a conclusion about Edward and Jasper, I feel he loves his family and treats them like any human family they have ups and downs. Him wanting to control the situations the only thing he wanted to control is keeping Bella safe. When he thought there was a problem, yes he did sorta freak out like anyone would if they thought something terrible was going to happen to your love and you were to blame.
I do not fault Edward in taking the lead when it comes to Bella. To me it would be strange if your Dad or sister or Brother was the one who made those choices and when Edward calmed down he did think about it and did talk it over and was open to the family.

Edwards life would have been totally different if he was still human. Even Carlisle tried to commit suicide and then when he could not change who he became, he change is direction of his life.
This is what Edward did too. There was nothing he could do about it execpt maybe go around like Rosalie with a bad attitute all the time. So Edward filled his time with learning. He did kill people for awhile but he did not kill the innocent ones. There is no excuse for even that, so he has been trying to make up for that time by being the best he can be in everything. Which to me is a great aspiration for anyone to have and try and fill,
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby spicey16 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:45 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:
spicey16 wrote:i dont agree that his arrogance masks anything. I think he genuinely thinks that he is smarter than the people around him. He thinks that he knows best, whether it be to protect bella or the family secret, he doesnt take other peoples opinions into consideration, or if he does then he always assumes them wrong and goes with his own. but honestly, I am happy that edward has faults... i really didnt like him that much at first because he did no wrong and was too perfect, then i read the excerpt where he couldnt cook and i fell in love!!! and then in some of the other books i realized that he isnt perfect and that, to me, makes him more relatable and therefore more desirable. i'm pretty sure i have a codependency problem haha


What do you mean thinks he is smarter than everyone around him, he knows it...isn't arrogance the false assumption that one is superior? If that is the case then he is not arrogant at all, just plain right... ;) O'lord it's hard to be humble when your perfect in every way.... :o

Do we need another love fest?

by my saying he thinks it means that he believes it so therefore it is arrgogance in my book.

As for your other post DK, i think that it a very interesting point. God (or fate,karma, whatever you may believe it all works very similarlly) may have seent bella as a way to prove to edward that he is good and that he isnt a monster*. He is able to prove this to himslef by NOT killing bella when thats all he wants to do. At the time he doesnt consiously know that he is doing this but in hind sight i think that it helps him resolve some of his issues with the after life.

*i do not believe him to be a monster because he murdered some bad people. no i am not god and would not presume i have the right to judge however i will not fault someone for taking out a couple bad guys. i mean you dont hold the executioner responsible for lethal injection, pulling the switch, whatever... i dont see how edward is considered a monster for this.
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