True Love? Reality or Myth

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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby gamb1t » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:17 am

The Dark Knight wrote:No worries gamb1t, You birng up several things that give food for thought...I have read CS Lewis discussion on Love. My comments for the period comes from the Troubador songs, The concpet of Courtly love was one way while true love was both directions...But your correct love is very difficult to define or even come to an understanding with.


I agree, love is very hard to argue about, as is any emotion. It would be like arguing about fear, and what scares us. Everyone is afraid of different things, just as everyone loves/views loves in different ways.
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby The Dark Knight » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:56 pm

gamb1t wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:No worries gamb1t, You birng up several things that give food for thought...I have read CS Lewis discussion on Love. My comments for the period comes from the Troubador songs, The concpet of Courtly love was one way while true love was both directions...But your correct love is very difficult to define or even come to an understanding with.


I agree, love is very hard to argue about, as is any emotion. It would be like arguing about fear, and what scares us. Everyone is afraid of different things, just as everyone loves/views loves in different ways.


So waht kinds of love are there? We said a few but there are many more ???
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby katie » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:53 am

love exists. if it doesn't we wouldn't spend so much time chasing it/grieving it/in it/out of it/wanting it/hating it.

that's my two cents anyway
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby TwilightMaiden » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:38 am

I believe that true love is a reality and exists, I've seen examples of it happening and I hope that one day it will happen to me :)
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby Knives » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:06 am

Whew...this is a seemingly simple question with a really complex answer. I apologize in advance for the upcoming Wall of Text (patent pending).

In the Western world - though, increasingly, only in the United States & Canada - "true love" is tied intimately with the idea of a soul mate. The idea is that you will, eventually, meet a person who is "meant" for you, and the two of you will be together forever in perfect harmony. The majority of the population believes that this "true love" is at first sight, and is infallible.

I don't believe it.

In reality, this cultural belief is both dangerous and self-destructive, especially among teenagers. Young women - and sometimes men - will stay with abusive partners because they mistake the passion of chemical attraction for love. They develop co-dependencies, anorexia, severe self-esteem problems, depression, suicidal tendencies, and often have difficulty forming good realtionships later on in life. Others end up sad and lonely for their entire lives, waiting for that one transcendant meeting that will change it all. It never comes.

The crux of the problem is predestination; namely, belief in it. Whether or not everything is pre-ordained, no one ever got anything good from sitting there and just taking what life throws at them. There's a reason that the Stoics all (literally) died out. Love does not happen at first sight - attraction, obsession, fixation, yes, but not love.

I do believe in love, not just as an emotion but as an ideal. However, love is a developed emotion, one which slowly springs from knowing a person, having a relationship with them, interaction, mutual respect, and friendship. Romantic love can start from attraction or obsession, yes, but you also have to be able to stand being around the person for five minutes. The love of a couple starts with friendship, with understanding each other's wants, needs, and fears. Love is based around not only devotion, but compromise, frustration, lust, and even pain. You have to care enough about a person to let them hurt you, because the pain is inevitable. That kind of relationship takes constant work and devotion, not only in trying to meet your lover's needs, but in accepting and forgiving those faults in them that you find annoying, saddening, or even unbearable at times. It's easy to appreciate a lover's virtues - it's much harder to forgive their faults.

One last thing - love does not involve subsuming onseself in one's partner. Everyone needs "me" time, and your likes and dislikes, while likely to be changed by such a relationship (prime example, my newfound tolerance for hip-hop, given that my fiancee REALLY enjoys it) should not be completely overwritten. Becoming utterly devoted to only your partner and nothing else is unhealthy and leads down very dark paths, very quickly, all of which have the end of the relationship written all over them. A healthy relationship involves being aware of and then respecting your partner's wants and needs, and also includes recieving the same courtesy in return. You don't have to like them. Just tolerate them.

Looking forward to your replies!

- Knives
Openhome wrote:Knives, I believe that..
wait for it...
you are right.
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby gamb1t » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:32 pm

Lol while I agree with most of ur stuff, I'm just curious if you are a Nihilist?
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby Asheleyo » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:52 pm

Knives wrote: The majority of the population believes that this "true love" is at first sight, and is infallible.


I disagree with this. I think the concept of love at first sight is falling out with most of society in the west. We're perfectly happy to lust at first sight, but most of us, as far as I've known my peers, are not fooled by the fairy tales anymore.


Knives wrote:The crux of the problem is predestination; namely, belief in it. Whether or not everything is pre-ordained, no one ever got anything good from sitting there and just taking what life throws at them. There's a reason that the Stoics all (literally) died out. Love does not happen at first sight - attraction, obsession, fixation, yes, but not love.


Having been raised in a church all my life, where predestination is widely accepted in one form or another, it's hard for me to turn my back completely on the idea. I do believe that our lives have paths that can be taken. And that, if you have faith, taking the path you believe is right will lead you toward a fulfilling life. I think it's up to individuals to decide what is fulfilling to them. I personally could not live my whole life without a mate. It's not in me to be alone. I would become a black hole and swallow myself up in misery. Do I think I was meant to be married to my current husband? As cooky as it may sound, yes. Not in the sense that all the forces of the universe came together to bring us to the same place at the same time. But just looking at all the different things that could have happened to keep us apart, it's hard to believe that there wasn't some predestination there.

Knives wrote:I do believe in love, not just as an emotion but as an ideal. However, love is a developed emotion, one which slowly springs from knowing a person, having a relationship with them, interaction, mutual respect, and friendship. Romantic love can start from attraction or obsession, yes, but you also have to be able to stand being around the person for five minutes. The love of a couple starts with friendship, with understanding each other's wants, needs, and fears. Love is based around not only devotion, but compromise, frustration, lust, and even pain. You have to care enough about a person to let them hurt you, because the pain is inevitable. That kind of relationship takes constant work and devotion, not only in trying to meet your lover's needs, but in accepting and forgiving those faults in them that you find annoying, saddening, or even unbearable at times. It's easy to appreciate a lover's virtues - it's much harder to forgive their faults.


I hold on to the belief that, while relationships must be nurtured and worked on, there is something about love that cannot be developed. Either it's there or it's not. It's that feeling of something just seeming right and good about being with that person and wrong about being apart from them. And it never seemed like there was a point where it started feeling that way; it just always was. At least, that's how it feels in my marriage.

Knives wrote:Everyone needs "me" time


You better believe it!
Precisely because death awaits us in the end, we must live fully.

Stars did fly toward each other, irresistibly, as if they were falling in love. And millions of years later, lovers on Earth drew together and fell in love, watching the stars fall.
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby Angelvamp » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:03 am

The glass is always half empty, huh Knives? :D Oh well, a nice strong shot of nihilism (as gamb1t catagorized it) is sometimes needed to keep things from getting too fluffy. Maybe the Team Edward thread could use some... :lol:

Knives wrote:In reality, this cultural belief is both dangerous and self-destructive, especially among teenagers. Young women - and sometimes men - will stay with abusive partners because they mistake the passion of chemical attraction for love. They develop co-dependencies, anorexia, severe self-esteem problems, depression, suicidal tendencies, and often have difficulty forming good realtionships later on in life. Others end up sad and lonely for their entire lives, waiting for that one transcendant meeting that will change it all. It never comes.


I think this is a little strong. The belief in true love inspires anorexia? Yow! :? I really don't think it is this particular cultural belief that is the dangerous one. After all, it is a belief of faith and hope. I dobut someone who believes in true love would end up alone their entire lives, just believing in the exsitence of such a thing tells of the character of the person. In time and with maturity and maybe a few mistakes along the way, people learn what love truly means. This meaning is completely subjective, love feels different for everyone. Although, hopefully, the basics are the same. Also, there are a million and one reasons, all different and specific to each relationship, as to why people stay with abusive partners. IMO, it can't be wrapped up so succinctly or easily.

Knives wrote:That kind of relationship takes constant work and devotion, not only in trying to meet your lover's needs, but in accepting and forgiving those faults in them that you find annoying, saddening, or even unbearable at times. It's easy to appreciate a lover's virtues - it's much harder to forgive their faults.

One last thing - love does not involve subsuming onseself in one's partner. Everyone needs "me" time, and your likes and dislikes, while likely to be changed by such a relationship (prime example, my newfound tolerance for hip-hop, given that my fiancee REALLY enjoys it) should not be completely overwritten. Becoming utterly devoted to only your partner and nothing else is unhealthy and leads down very dark paths, very quickly, all of which have the end of the relationship written all over them. A healthy relationship involves being aware of and then respecting your partner's wants and needs, and also includes recieving the same courtesy in return.


Amen to the above! :)
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby marielle » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:29 am

I really hope that true love exists....
but I also know that love needs work... Your love for someone can be so true but still you do have differences you have to work through. nobody likes the same thing or wants the same thing in life.
I mean look at Bella and Edward, Bella's major annoyance with edward is that he always want to give her things...so even when she loves him truelly there are still things she wished he would change.

Looking from a scientific p.o.v. there have been researches about how and why people fall in love with each other, they state that it has much to do with the senth the chemicals in our body release...its according to them a primal reaction of your body
So looking at that, love doesn't really exists but is an instinct to survive.

maybe al those writes really got in our heads and made that whole true love thing just as they make siencefiction... I don't know...
All I know is that I love my man allready for more than 9 years.. even though i sometimes get really annoyed by him...
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Re: True Love? Reality or Myth

Postby gamb1t » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:35 pm

marielle wrote:All I know is that I love my man allready for more than 9 years.. even though i sometimes get really annoyed by him...


I think that is part of it. Everything in life exists in balance....so nothing can always be good. Plus, the good times wouldn't be good if there weren't bad times to compare them to.
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