Edward and Bella 2

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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Asheleyo » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:00 am

No offense, but I quoted exactly what you said, which was not what Angelvamp said.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Asheleyo » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:47 am

una wrote:But in all seriousness, it is difficult to be polite and (outwardly...not necessarily feeling) respectful towards someone that unleashes your inner beast (we've all been in this situation, though I doubt we would have killed someone over it). When Edward's inner "monster" is triggered by Bella's scent, his ability to fight, even though he came off as rude and insensitive, was heroic. But again, it's knowing all the facts...Bella at the moment, didn't. It's bad enough to close a door in a gal's face, but to kill her would be a far worse mistake. And even though Edward does give Bella the cold shoulder, after their discussion in the hospital, she can tell he is trying to push her away, not because he is rude, but because he is trying to protect her even though Bella believes (rightly so) that he is trying to hide something. Remember, I've said this before, the road to the infernal sauna is paved with good intentions. The signals become even more confusing as Bella can tell as much as he tries to avoid her, he pays attention to her. As much as Edward is an enigma to Bella, she is an enigma to him. That could be the pull of the attraction as well, they are each a puzzle the other wants to figure out.


It is true that there seem to be those people you encounter that push your buttons and it's the hardest thing in the world (or feels like it at the time) to keep the tone respectful. As much of a stretch as that may seem in some ways when comparing it to Edward and Bella, it really does work. Especially when you've read Midnight Sun and you really hear his internal monologue. He decides right then that he hates her for coming into this town of all towns just to ruin him and everything he's worked for. So considering he was battling that, it's downright impressive that he managed to get out of that room with only an evil glare in her direction, and he still managed to try to sweet-talk Ms Cope into moving his class, a very civil response to his predicament.

We never really see Edward fully explain his reaction to Bella, most likely wanting to not hurt her feelings or scare her too much. But I am curious as to how she would have reacted to his exact thoughts, not the sugar-coated ones he tells her later.

And the mystery is definitely one of the reasons they are so strongly attracted to each other. In my opinion, it is one of the things that advances their relationship so quickly.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Angelvamp » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:13 am

diane771 wrote:Asheleyo, I haven't a clue to what you are trying to say. The first place is, that when Edward first met Bella in class when he was first over come with her scent, and desire to kill her, he just wanted to get away from her, because he didn't want to kill her. He had made his mind up that he didn't want to be a monster, and yet you say something like this when Edward is under so much pressure to control himself, you are only worried about the impression he is making. Bella knows there is something wrong but she is less hard on him than you and some others.
He was casting her out of his attentions. He was doing to try to keep her away from him for the safety of his family and himself and Bella, but still, he was treating her like an outcast.
Would you rather have him break everything that he had stride to live up to, a decent life, a life of a vampire that does not live off of human blood, so he wouldn't treat Bella as an outcast? I just don't see where you are going with this instead of giving him credit for sitting there and holding it together, you are worried about Bella's feelings, to which later on she immediately overlooked when he introduce himself to her and started talking to her. So again, my point is the outsiders are looking at things and seeing problems in Edward's and Bella's relationship where there is none. Did Bella ever once say" Edward you were such a jerk to me that first day at school " no because Bella is more mature and knows that the world doesn't revolve around her and Edward might have had other things on his mind that had nothing to do with her. I do believe that Edward did the right thing in sitting there and enduring the scent and trying to come to terms with this problem, instead of dealing with it in another manner. He may not have been on a friendly, welcoming nature that day but nobody is so I give Edward a pass because he did not run from it.


diane771, if you read the posts right before my comments, you'll see that we were discussing manners and respect, and Edward's seemingly lack of them (at least from Bella's perspective and at the time) when he first meets Bella. Despite everyone rhapsodizing about how polite and gentlemanly Edward is, he doesn't quite display this when he and Bella first meet. Of course, we all know that it was a herculean effort on Edward's part to not kill Bella (and everyone else in the room) and no one would argue that he did the right thing. I was merely pointing out that Edward's actions, regardless of the motives behind them, weren't always chivalrous.

And thank you Asheleyo for your explanations. :)

Alphie wrote:Ohhhhh... you make a good point Angelvamp about Edward's LACK of manners at the beginning of Twilight with the glaring and the cold shoulder. But take it from the view that he at least had the decency to ignore his vampiric (is that a word?) instincts and NOT kill her. Couldn't his ability to suppress his urge to kill her and instead just glare at her be considered some what a form of chivalry?


Hey, does this mean that I get credit for not ripping the head off of the person in the cube next to me? He's REALLY irritating. :lol: Hmm, what if it was Mike and not Bella that had "la tua cantante"? Would Edward still have shown such restraint? Since there was no mystery regarding the hidden thoughts or inexplicable attraction?

Asheleyo wrote:We never really see Edward fully explain his reaction to Bella, most likely wanting to not hurt her feelings or scare her too much. But I am curious as to how she would have reacted to his exact thoughts, not the sugar-coated ones he tells her later.

And the mystery is definitely one of the reasons they are so strongly attracted to each other. In my opinion, it is one of the things that advances their relationship so quickly.


You are entirely correct Asheleyo, good call about the "sugar-coated" explanations. Though I think Bella understands what his exacts thoughts were later in the series. And there's just something about an enigma that is irrisistable. IMO, there wouldn't have been a relationship if Edward could read Bella's thoughts. Or would there? Hmm, now I have to think about that more. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby una » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:37 am

Angelvamp wrote:Hmm, what if it was Mike and not Bella that had "la tua cantante"? Would Edward still have shown such restraint? Since there was no mystery regarding the hidden thoughts or inexplicable attraction?


Interesting question. I think Edward would have still resisted, but it would have been far, far, far easier for him to avoid Mike. Again, Edward doesn't want to disappoint his family (please note, I have not read the 12 chapters of Midnight Sun only the first chapter SM had originally posted on her website) nor Carlisle, nor does he want to turn his back on all the progress he's made since his rebellion. In some ways it would be easier for him to avoid Mike, but in a way, I could see it making it easier on Edward if he decided to make Mike a nice little snack (think about how annoyed Edward is by Mike). However, I see Edward's character forcing him to avoid Mike at all costs and not giving in to his vampiric nature. However, if Edward did pursue Bella, I'm sure the comments and *ahem* daydreams that Mike has about Bella might turn the tide for Edward or at least tempt him in a different way.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Asheleyo » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:37 pm

Angelvamp wrote: Hmm, what if it was Mike and not Bella that had "la tua cantante"? Would Edward still have shown such restraint? Since there was no mystery regarding the hidden thoughts or inexplicable attraction?


It's hard to say. I for some reason have difficulty seeing the concept of "la tua cantante" applying to someone who would not hold further attraction (ie Edward's not gay). From Emmett's story, we have two accounts of it being someone of the opposite sex and none to the contrary. I think it's part of the irresistibility. But if I am to make that jump, I see it being much more difficult for him to withstand because he wouldn't have had that pre-existing interest that had him so fully examining Bella and seeing his reflection in her eyes. But maybe I underestimate him.

Angelvamp wrote:You are entirely correct Asheleyo, good call about the "sugar-coated" explanations. Though I think Bella understands what his exacts thoughts were later in the series. And there's just something about an enigma that is irrisistable. IMO, there wouldn't have been a relationship if Edward could read Bella's thoughts. Or would there? Hmm, now I have to think about that more. Anyone have any thoughts on that?


In my deep desire to have the saga happen one way or another, I have to believe it would happen, lol. Really, I think there would have been a relationship still. Part of the mystery behind Bella is that her thoughts are never what he expects. So even if he could hear them, he'd still need further explanation, there would still be an enigma to her. Some things might have progressed a little faster since he wouldn't have had to fight with himself so much, believing that she couldn't possibly want him in any way close to the way he wanted her. There were so many occasions that he thought her reactions were something they weren't. He would many times misinterpret her cringing as a fault of his monstrous nature when it was really some unrelated internal dilemma on Bella's side. He couldn't doubt her words when he could hear her thoughts.
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Stars did fly toward each other, irresistibly, as if they were falling in love. And millions of years later, lovers on Earth drew together and fell in love, watching the stars fall.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Alphie » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:02 pm

Angelvamp - yeah I think you DO get credit for not ripping the head off of the guy in the next cube. I think we all should take some credit when we try to control our urge to do something possibly mean or violent and instead take the high road and prove ourselves to be a bit more civilized.

Now, when it comes to Mike or someone else being a la tua contante, I think it depend on the situation in which the possible violence happened. If Edward had first met Mike in school, I think he would have controlled himself enough to not kill him right then and there. It's possible that he may hove gone after Mike later on, but knowing Edward and his desire to live like Carlisle, I doubt it. Emmett or Jasper on the other hand would have just killed him, as has been admitted in the books. Does it make it right? No it doesn't. But I think it adds to their love story that he resisted in the way that he did and eventually fell in love with her.

I also think, like Asheleyo, that the love story would have happened even if he could have heard her thoughts. At least on Edward's part. Like she pointed out, Bella's thoughts would still have been confusing to him, he just wouldn't have had to ask her so often what she was thinking. The difficulty may be in the way Bella fell in love with Edward then. she very much appreciates the fact that he CAN'T hear her thoughts and relies on that fact in several situations to do things and get away with things that he didn't know about. But even still, I think she would have fallen for him and ended up with him. the Proof for me is ta the end of the book when she willingly lets him read her mind. She wouldn't have done that if she didn't want him knowing all of her inner secrets at that moment. And don't forget that she wishes for it several other times in the series - hoping it would convince him how very deeply she feels for him. But it's a very good question to ponder.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby December » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:13 pm

Alphie wrote:Angelvamp - yeah I think you DO get credit for not ripping the head off of the guy in the next cube. I think we all should take some credit when we try to control our urge to do something possibly mean or violent and instead take the high road and prove ourselves to be a bit more civilized.

Then too, the Cullens are under unspeakable pressure to commit the violent acts they refrain from every day. Which rather changes the picture. I agree with Angelvamp (if that's what she was suggesting) that it looks perverse, at first sight, to give them credit for resisting doing really BAD things -- things most of us refrain from doing our whole lives. But their circumstances aren't ours. Look at it this way: someone who gives away their country’s secrets in time of war is doing something really bad. Those of us who resist the temptation to sell state secrets to the enemy hardly deserve medals for it. But the prisoner on the rack who keeps his silence rather than betray his country -- to my mind that is different. And the Cullens’ situation is far closer to the prisoner's than to yours or mine. This isn't just about controlling your violent impulses; living without human blood is acutely painful. I'm inclined to give them full credit for the enormity of what they undertake to do. As for your own self-restraint, Angelvamp...I'm not sure I feel as generous as Alphie (*grin*). At any rate, I think I'd give you less credit than I do Edward!
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Asheleyo » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:27 pm

Alphie wrote:The difficulty may be in the way Bella fell in love with Edward then. she very much appreciates the fact that he CAN'T hear her thoughts and relies on that fact in several situations to do things and get away with things that he didn't know about. But even still, I think she would have fallen for him and ended up with him. the Proof for me is ta the end of the book when she willingly lets him read her mind. She wouldn't have done that if she didn't want him knowing all of her inner secrets at that moment. And don't forget that she wishes for it several other times in the series - hoping it would convince him how very deeply she feels for him. But it's a very good question to ponder.


Now that I think about it, I forgot to consider how Bella would feel having her thoughts heard and being constantly aware of that fact. I can imagine, at least, that it would make her more guarded about her thoughts, trying to edit where possible and keep herself in check. There are a few times that she thinks things that she knows Edward would not have appreciated hearing, even if they were just sporadic thoughts that she didn't really mean. They just popped up. I bet she would be worried about what her subconscious could sometimes bring up for him to hear.

I would, that's for sure. I'm very often glad that no one can hear my thoughts because they just wouldn't understand properly. But after time, once Edward and Bella got to know each other, I think Edward would acquire a taste for what she really thinks and what is just a passing brain wave. Still, it would probably make the relationship a bit more uncomfortable than it is. Funny how that would accent even more how nice and natural and easy her relationship with Jacob is.
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Stars did fly toward each other, irresistibly, as if they were falling in love. And millions of years later, lovers on Earth drew together and fell in love, watching the stars fall.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Angelvamp » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:15 am

December wrote:As for your own self-restraint, Angelvamp...I'm not sure I feel as generous as Alphie (*grin*). At any rate, I think I'd give you less credit than I do Edward!


:lol: Well, I didn't spread any nasty rumors about him or put a tack on his chair...do I get any credit now? :lol: Good thing for that guy I'm not a bloodsucking fiend. :)

As for Edward hearing Bella's thoughts, I think in some ways it may have complicated their relationship further, especially in the beginning. She felt an attraction to Edward and if he could've seen it in her thoughts, it may have made it harder for him to stay away from her. And if he were able to read her thoughts, when would he have divulged that information to her? If at all? Spoiler alert! Midnight Sun reference: He states in MS that his curiousity about her hidden thoughts is harder to resist than her scent. IMO, the fact that he couldn't read her mind is one of the reasons he fell in love with her. He often said in MS that she doesn't seem to think like a normal human but I think he feels that way because he can't read her mind. She seems pretty normal to me!

Good point about Jacob, Asheleyo, I think their relationship is much less strained than her and Edward's. Even if Edward could read her mind, I doubt that would've made their relationship as easy as it is with Jacob.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby diane771 » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:30 pm

I am glad the changes to this topic and Edward is do great. Also it must be to the liking of people who did not appreciate some and what they had to contribute.
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