Edward and Bella 2

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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Asheleyo » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:27 pm

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but I was wondering if anyone thought that Edward and Bella falling in love while Bella was human--really getting to know each other and fighting against the nature of vampire-human interactions--had a tangible effect on their love. What I really wondered is if anyone thinks that makes their love stronger than the normal vampire love. Is there something even more indestructible about their love than about the love between two grown vampires who meet and fall in love?
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:48 pm

That's a good question. I can't say I think it's stronger than regular vampire love, simply because the other vampire loves we've witnessed haven't been tested the way Bella and Edward's has, at least for us to examine. But I do think there's something to the fact that they are more sure of it, simply because they've had more reason to doubt it.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Angelvamp » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:41 am

That is a very good question. I remember in BD, someone was saying that there's a difference between a "coven" and a "family". What the Cullens have is a family. They are bound by love, which transcends what the normal relationships between coven members would have. I think it is important that Edward was primarily a "vegetarian" and shunned normal vampire behavior. Of course, if he didn't, he would've eaten Bella instead of marrying her! :lol: But it seems to me that because he fought so hard NOT to be what he was, he was able to see the virtue of humans instead of viewing them as livestock. That basis made it possible, over all others IMO, for him to fall for Bella. The same goes for Rosalie, although she didn't have two years with Emmett being human. But if she did, I think things would've ended up the same.

So, long story short, I guess my answer is yes! :lol: Their love developed against all odds and survived many hardships, specifically because one of them was human, that made their relationship and feeling for each other stronger IMO.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby swedishskinjer » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:06 pm

I disagree about Edward exhibiting stalker-like behavior. He truly believed that Bella would be endangered in Jacob's presence, since he was a fairly young wolf who was much more prone to fits of anger during the early stages. He didn't keep her away for selfish reasons. If anything, his reasons directly concerned Bella's well-being as a human. It's important to acknowledge that Edward did relent after realizing what Jacob did for Bella, and he even befriended Seth. During Breaking Dawn, Jacob was still being prejudiced, as evidenced by the fact that he continued to regard the Cullen family negatively. In Eclipse, Edward embraces a truce with Jacob Black long before Jacob respects Edward's sincerity himself. In Breaking Dawn, Edward also implores Jacob to start a relationship with Bella if she wants a family so strongly.

We need to look at Edward's actions in the context of this fantasy. These characters are making choices in extraordinary situations. Furthermore, mating between vampires in Twilight constitutes an incredibly strong bond. Every choice Edward made - justified or not - was for Bella's welfare as a human being in a dangerous world. As a spiritualist, I strongly believe in bonds between two individuals that are intended by destiny, so the "forbidden love" between Edward and Bella has always intrigued me. Here is an immortal who sees the relationships in his family as time slowly creeps by. He questions the existence of a soul in vampires. Then Bella comes along after a series of incidents and challenges his thinking. She is unafraid of Edward's true nature, and that attitude deeply fascinates him. This fascination turns into love that is only strengthened when they both devote themselves to an eternity of commitment as soul mates.

We can't judge Edward with our human experiences and knowledge, because these are characters in extraordinary circumstances. Edward doesn't watch Bella sleep to satisfy some sexual desire, and he certainly doesn't have the intention of violating her. He observes her humanity with a curious eye, because he cannot read Bella's mind. He sees this human, and he doesn't know what to make of her. She's like something else entirely.

Edward may be around 117, but he is physically 17. Therefore, I don't see anything questionable about his relationship with Bella. Despite his old-fashioned ways, Edward has always possessed the body of a young male who has never found true love. He will always be a younger male with respect to his physical appearance. He has all of the faults of an average guy who has never discovered love.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:05 pm

swedishskinjer wrote:I disagree about Edward exhibiting stalker-like behavior. He truly believed that Bella would be endangered in Jacob's presence, since he was a fairly young wolf who was much more prone to fits of anger during the early stages. He didn't keep her away for selfish reasons. If anything, his reasons directly concerned Bella's well-being as a human. It's important to acknowledge that Edward did relent after realizing what Jacob did for Bella, and he even befriended Seth. During Breaking Dawn, Jacob was still being prejudiced, as evidenced by the fact that he continued to regard the Cullen family negatively. In Eclipse, Edward embraces a truce with Jacob Black long before Jacob respects Edward's sincerity himself. In Breaking Dawn, Edward also implores Jacob to start a relationship with Bella if she wants a family so strongly.


Hmm. I have to very respectfully disagree.

Why does what Edward believed trump what Bella knew about him?? Why do Edward's assumptions mean that he doesn't have to actually see things for himself, or discuss it with Bella? So, overall, what makes it so that Edward gets to make decisions and Bella doesn't?

He doesn't implore him to start a relationship with her, he says he can, essentially, be a sperm donor. However, it's important to note that there was always a part of Edward that wanted Bella to be with Jacob, because he would keep her human, and that after Edward got ahold of himself during Eclipse, he would have let her go to Jacob and leave him with no protest.

As true as it is that it's important to note that Edward lays aside his differences with Jacob before Jacob does with Edward, it's also important to note that during the entirety of Eclipse, Edward continues to treat Jacob with some serious condescension. I see the tent scene, when they have that conversation, as the first true step either of them make towards a truce, and I see the wedding invitation as the beginning of it. I'm not letting Jacob off the hook though, I just think they treated each other equally horribly. As for the fact that it took Jacob longer to forgive Edward - well, Edward won didn't he? It's a very simplistic way to look at it, I know, but it's also really what it boils down to. Jacob has a lot more to resent Edward for than Edward does to resent Jacob for, whether Edward deserves it or not - in some cases he does, and in some cases, he doesn't.

This is all just what I believe though, and why, nothing says you have to agree! :D
swedishskinjer wrote:We need to look at Edward's actions in the context of this fantasy. These characters are making choices in extraordinary situations. Furthermore, mating between vampires in Twilight constitutes an incredibly strong bond. Every choice Edward made - justified or not - was for Bella's welfare as a human being in a dangerous world. As a spiritualist, I strongly believe in bonds between two individuals that are intended by destiny, so the "forbidden love" between Edward and Bella has always intrigued me. Here is an immortal who sees the relationships in his family as time slowly creeps by. He questions the existence of a soul in vampires. Then Bella comes along after a series of incidents and challenges his thinking. She is unafraid of Edward's true nature, and that attitude deeply fascinates him. This fascination turns into love that is only strengthened when they both devote themselves to an eternity of commitment as soul mates.


I couldn't agree more. Every move Edward make was motivated, in its entirety, by an intense desire for Bella's well being. We can look at how he went about these things in the right way or not, or how he should have/could have handled things differently, but in the end, I don't think his motives are up for debate.

swedishskinjer wrote:We can't judge Edward with our human experiences and knowledge, because these are characters in extraordinary circumstances. Edward doesn't watch Bella sleep to satisfy some sexual desire, and he certainly doesn't have the intention of violating her. He observes her humanity with a curious eye, because he cannot read Bella's mind. He sees this human, and he doesn't know what to make of her. She's like something else entirely.
Edward may be around 117, but he is physically 17. Therefore, I don't see anything questionable about his relationship with Bella. Despite his old-fashioned ways, Edward has always possessed the body of a young male who has never found true love. He will always be a younger male with respect to his physical appearance. He has all of the faults of an average guy who has never discovered love.


Yeah, you're right, but I can definitely see how it can be seen as a little creepy.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby rollie715 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:03 pm

I posted this comment here, rather then in Rob's Halfway House, as it seemed like it fit better with the stated theme, even tho I'm responding to comments I read there. I realize this thread hasn't seen much activity lately, but it seemed like the right thing to do.

Your rants have triggered some thoughts of my own, maybe a little from a guy’s perspective.
When Edward was first exposed to Bella, it came at him fast and hard, actually overwhelmed his senses. Her smell drew him in and excited feelings he had worked for many years to suppress. And since he couldn't read her mind, he didn't have the advantage of understanding her intentions or predicting what she would do next. This made it very difficult for him to know whether he could control himself as he reacted to her unexpected actions. It is interesting that on the surface, the Lion and the Lamb stereotype is seen as Edward the Predator Lion and Bella the Prey Lamb, just as in Pride and Prejudice our 'first impressions' of who has the Pride and who has the Prejudice seem to get reversed as we understand the story better. To me, Edward was the Lamb trying to protect himself and Bella was the Lion who pursued him relentlessly. Edward felt weak, vulnerable, afraid, and not in control, exactly the feelings any normal adolescent boy has when dealing with his first serious relationship. He tried to stay away from her, he warned her to keep her distance, and continually tried to keep himself in control when she was around. Initially his focus was only on himself and coming to grips with his own feelings, but that developed into an interest in her and a feeling of responsibility that included wanting to take care of and protect her. He had a natural tendency to overact and that came out in his over protectiveness. I see his controlling behavior as a result of an adolescent with super powers who was trying to come to grips with the more mature role of learning to be a provider and protector. I don't believe he handled it all perfectly, as none of us do as we go through these changes, but I do believe his heart and intentions were in the right place and would allow him to improve in the areas he was weak and actually become the kind of man any girl or woman would want as her own.

I don't condone destructive or controlling behavior or even defend every situation in the saga as recommended reading to impressionable young women, but instead view it as a wonderful opportunity to expose them to these issues and open up productive avenues of discussion.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby December » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:26 pm

Rollie715 wrote:a wonderful opportunity to expose them to these issues and open up productive avenues of discussion.

Yes indeed! With the emphasis on "productive"! Thanks for bringing this conversation here. If anyone is curious, the previous posts on the Halfway House can be found on this page.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:38 pm

Rollie~ I couldn't agree more. I find it almost...refreshing... to see Edward cast as the Lamb in the situation, but it certainly fits. Bella was absolutely the pursuer, and not only at first, but throughout The Saga. The scene in Eclipse where she attempts to physically seduce him certainly comes to mind as a prime example. However, I wonder what you think of the argument (and it has been made here as well as on other threads and sites) that Edward somehow manipulated all of those reactions from Bella, that he used his years of life experience and knowledge gained through reading others minds to figure out how exactly to manipulate Bella into those reactions to get what he wanted from her. I'm sure you can guess my reaction. But, I'm certainly interested in yours.

In regards to Edward's overprotectiveness and how it is displayed, as I said in the HH, there are absolutely situations where he crosses the line. But I think the key to your discussion is your assertion that he can learn and grow from his mistakes. Absolutely. Yes, vampires become frozen, essentially, in the state in which they were transformed. My guess is living a century as a hormonal adolescent boy surrounded by lovers must have been more than torturous for Edward. But, as he experienced life, even stuck in perpetual teenagerdom, he learned. He learned what he liked and didn't like about people, what attracted him or repelled him, what he enjoyed and didn't enjoy. But he also, I think, learned how fleeting life is. He saw entire lifetimes play out before him, witnessed the shattering grief of losing your beloved, not only after decades together, but also suddenly and without warning. I think Edward learned exactly how fragile life is in the course of his experience of forever. I never agreed with it many of the things Edward did, and I like to believe that he was taken to task for it many a time. But, I also understand it, in a way. And, in my eyes, The Saga is as much a tale about Edward's journey and growth as it is about Bella's.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby rollie715 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:47 pm

Jazz Girl – First of all, I have a bias towards seeing the positive side of these characters and the entire saga. Having said that, I also try to think objectively in discussing the issues.

Here’s a few of my ramblings, as I’m not sure what I’m going to say on this subject:

It appears that SM used the term Dazzled many times in the text, but I’m not sure I’ve seen it used in the movies. This refers to the ability Edward had to influence people to get what he wants, especially the females young and old. During the course of a conversation using his mannerisms, eyes, and words, he seemed to have the ability to effect the emotions of the prey and cause them to melt or yield to his wishes. I believe Edward did use these techniques on Bella, but I’m not sure they were always intentional or with malice. He probably developed these techniques naturally over the last 100 years as he experienced life as a new vampire and they just became part of his normal personality. Bella comments often of how she is influenced to change her thinking or behavior when he Dazzles her. His response sometimes, which I think is honest, is that he doesn’t always realize he is doing it. I’m guessing he had developed somewhat of an attitude of superiority towards humans, not only physically but as he could read their thoughts, he must have felt they were all so involved in such petty concerns, they may have even bored him. Then along came Bella who he couldn’t figure out or even read her thoughts. She was interesting to him, even threatening. I might suggest, she represented someone who he could not predict or control. So in some ways he may have seen her as a challenge or even an equal. This was the first human he had ever encountered that brought about this response in him.

In response to one of your questions, I think he may have initially tried to manipulate her, but given that he really couldn’t tell what she was thinking, and having to deal with his own new feelings of attraction, I just don’t think he was able to maintain the control he would have normally had. Besides that, I think he really enjoyed the mystery surrounding this new adventure and that his usual controlling behavior would have detracted from that enjoyment. Many of his comments in Midnight Sun lead me to believe he had a strong commitment to integrity, especially as he read others minds and gave them appropriate privacy, so I would think he would extend the same courtesies to Bella, and attempt to give her the space to be her own individual, especially as that may have been what attracted him to her the most.

It seems my mind is rambling. More on this later.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Edwards Ragazza » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:40 pm

I haven't read the saga in several months and I only read them twice. So I may have forgotten parts of the story or may have the information wrong since I have been reading fan fics right now that maybe confusing me.


SM did mention the word dazzle but it was only with Edward. Was that one of his special powers besides mind reading? Like you said Rollie when he did dazzle it seemed like he had being doing for so long that it was part of his personality. If he did dazzle all the time to get what he wanted it was never malice reason. Cause lets face it don't we all try to dazzle are way out of something throughout life. For example if we get pulled over for speeding or adolescents example when we get in trouble with or parents. I don't think Edward tried to dazzle Bella to do anything that she didn't want to do or that would put her in harm way.

I think my small little rant yesturday was regarding that Edward controlled Bella in everything that she never had a choice or say in the matter. That was what was so frustrating to me when someone mentioned after reading the saga. I couldn't believe we were talking about the same book. Is that really what she got out of the Saga? I never thought Edward manipulated Bella with bad intentions either. Again I am trying to remember the few things he did I think one of them was to control and manipulate her from going to La Push but he knew the wolfs had a problem controlling their anger. Edward couldn't control that situation since he was not allowed on their grounds. If he could be there with a doubt he wouldn't of given Bella such a hard time going there b/c he would be there to take care if a situation should one arise.

It was also mentioned how he dominated Bella because Edward drover her around. I honestly think that if SM was writing about being in a abusive controlling relationship and how to realize you where in one and how to get yourself out of one it would be in the Self help section at the local bookstore or if written in a story form then in the suspenses certainly not in the young adults section.


I am sure there is other examples that are going to come or they have already been mentioned. I would love to have a day and read the old comments that address most of this but from what I looked over I am seeing at least a 1000 pages between Edward character and Bellas and of course the both of them. I would need several days to myself to read them. This well take some time.
Last edited by Edwards Ragazza on Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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