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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby Heart_in_Hand » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:24 pm

Hmmm... I haven't been on this thread much, but I want to answer your question!

I think Carlisle would have worked with Edward during the day seeing as he could only go out at night at the time you are referring. We know it was already hard for him to have to stay home alone during the day while thousands died that he might have been able to save. I believe having Edward to talk with and guide in the ways of the veggie-vamp would have provided him a nice distraction in the day time, and he would have still gone to the hospital at night.

Of course, leaving Edward home alone in his state at night was a risk, but Carlisle never set out to impose his way of life on any other vampires. If Edward wanted to leave and live the life of a "natural" vampire, he was free to go and do so. Carlisle might have taken a night off to talk to Edward on his first night as a vampire just to be able to talk with him and get to know the boy he saved/condemned. Basically out of pure curiosity, you know?

And then, I'm sure Carlisle already took a few nights off a month to hunt, or at least took a half-night (hehehe). Since Edward did decide to stay, I also assume Carlisle would have taken at least part of the nights that Edward needed to hunt off to accompany him for the first dozen times or so. Assuming they were more frequent than what Carlisle was already doing.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby alphanubilus » Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:11 pm


As Carlisle is my favorit of the vampires, I will give my thoughts about him first. In truth, he is like the greatest best friend or father anyone could ever hope for. He's kind, compassionate, loving, something I feel his own father probably never gave. The time period her grew up in was full of hatred, and much for no good reason. To have a compassionate vampire rise from the ashes of all of that chaos, is amazing... The fact that he would choose to use his skills to help so many people is also admirable... HOWEVER

One question that has always bugged me, how could a vampire of such compassion, willing put somebody else through what he was going through? While immortality is a neat concept, to be immortal has a horrible price, as any relationship you would have wouldn't last (Unless with other immortals). You would literally watch people turn to dust before your eyes.

There is a wonderful video game (RPG) called "Lost Oddyssey" of which deals with the price of immortality, and it pangs the immortals to have to witness the deaths of loved ones over and over again. They can't die, but everyone around them can. It is tragic really.

Carlisle, as a doctor, witnessed the deaths of untold thousands, through out his 300 year life. While Stephenie conceeds that the only reason he "created" Edward and Esme, it was out of dire neccessity... but who's neccessity? Neither Edward nor Esma had a choice, as Carlisle acted... but at what price?

While both Esme and Edward turned out fine, what would have happened IF Carlisle had accidentally created a monster? The greater question is, if Edward and Esme had a choice, do you think either of them would have chosen to become a vampire? In my opinion, probably not. While they can act human, in the end, they aren't human, and that has to get old really fast.

In reality, I think Carlisle might have regrets as to what he did, because what he did isn't like amputating a leg to save a life, he took their humanity, and turned them into something that many would consider monsters. Because of this, I don't think Carlisle would turn somebody ever again, unless that person (such as Belle) is full aware of the consequences.

So the question is... Do you think what Carlisle did for Edward and Esme humane or morally sound?

My opinion is no...

I think Carlisle did it, not for their benefit, as much as he would let on, but for his own. I think he was incredibly lonely and really needed to have somebody to respond to, both of which would later encourage him. So was he a bit selfish... Yes... but that is what makes him my favorit vampire character. He isn't perfect. He's made some horrible mistakes, no matter how Edward or Esme would try to justify his actions. He knows the cost and he knows that had it been the wrong person, he could have created something that he would later on half to destroy. However he's changed... evolved, if you will, and has become a better person because of it.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby JillOBean » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:11 pm

alphanubilus wrote:[color=#000000]
One question that has always bugged me, how could a vampire of such compassion, willing put somebody else through what he was going through? While immortality is a neat concept, to be immortal has a horrible price, as any relationship you would have wouldn't last (Unless with other immortals). You would literally watch people turn to dust before your eyes.


I mulled over this myself for quite some time. Carlisle "saved" them, but for whom? Well, as Stephenie said herself... it was partially out of lonliness, thus making it a selfish decision. Is that entirely noble? No, not really. But lets be honest about one thing here.

The Cullen's are such GOOD vampire's, are they not allowed any flaws? I honestly enjoy the small little flaws they DO have. It makes them more human to me.

As for the idea that immortality has its price. Yeah, it sure does. For years, well before Twilight came to be, I always thought if the opportunity to actually become a vampire presented itself, I would take it! But then I started thinking about my mom and dad, and worse... my baby sister. Who's not so much a baby anymore. You pay the price in seeing those you love and grew up with get old and eventually die. And then their children die and their children's children. It sounds rough and I don't know that after much thought... and reading the series... that its something I would want to undertake.

But then again-- I don't have an Edward Cullen in my life.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:56 pm

alphanubilus wrote:
In reality, I think Carlisle might have regrets as to what he did, because what he did isn't like amputating a leg to save a life, he took their humanity, and turned them into something that many would consider monsters. Because of this, I don't think Carlisle would turn somebody ever again, unless that person (such as Belle) is full aware of the consequences.

So the question is... Do you think what Carlisle did for Edward and Esme humane or morally sound?



Well, Carlisle himself admits that he acted out of selfishness, loneliness. I don't think Carlisle ever operated under any delusion that his actions were selfless. He took steps to ensure that they were as selfless as possible by selecting people who were on the brink of death, people who had no other human connections (with the exception of Rose, although the argument could be made that once her assault was discovered she and her family would be shunned) and people who deomonstrated strength in their human life. But, in the end, he knew he was taking human life (no matter how little time remained in it) to ease his own loneliness.

Either way, I am of Bella's opinion about it. Carlisle was not taking life, he was saving it.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby marielle » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:50 pm

I got a question for this thread....

Do you think Carlisle as the real leader of the Cullens?

I think actually it to be Edward.. Carlisle is the father... a loving father.. and I addore him for that..
but if you read the books, specially the draft of midnight sun... it always comes down to Edwards decisions
What ever he choose as long as it's not killing living being Carlisle will follow Edward...
even in the meetings with the Volturi it was Edward who took the front, the lead in the conversation...
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby alphanubilus » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:26 am

Jazz Girl wrote:

Well, Carlisle himself admits that he acted out of selfishness, loneliness. I don't think Carlisle ever operated under any delusion that his actions were selfless. He took steps to ensure that they were as selfless as possible by selecting people who were on the brink of death, people who had no other human connections (with the exception of Rose, although the argument could be made that once her assault was discovered she and her family would be shunned) and people who deomonstrated strength in their human life. But, in the end, he knew he was taking human life (no matter how little time remained in it) to ease his own loneliness.

Either way, I am of Bella's opinion about it. Carlisle was not taking life, he was saving it.


However, technically speaking he wasn't saving a life, but creating a new life. The reality is, the HUMAN part of that individual still died, at least physically. The human consciousness remains, albiet altered slightly due to the new mind and body of the vampire. So in reality he wasn't really saving their lives, but giving them new lives.

But that is the beauty of Carlisle. What he did, on many standards, was wrong, especially as none of his "saveys" had a choice. Carlisle, himself, realizes his mistakes, and thus doesn't repeat them. He isn't perfect and that is what makes him a much better character.

Now as touching who is the real leader of the Cullen family. It is Carlisle. He is the glue that holds the family together. Edward would be second of command, especially with him being the second oldest Cullen member, after Carlisle, but in the end it is Carlisle who has the final say. Carlisle, like any father, will do what is best for his family. He sided with Edward in New Moon, to leave Bella and Forks, because it was Edward's life and happiness at stake. Had he known that Edward would have eventually tried to have himself killed, he might not have made the decision, and in reality this is fully illustrated with his vote against Edward, in regards to turning Bella into a vampire.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:16 am

So, I was thinking this morning about Carlisle and Edward and Bella. During my musings, something occured to me and I want to get some folks opinions about this.

Knowing what we know about the newborn phase and how Carlisle was as a newborn, do you think it is possible that Carlisle did in fact have a "gift" and that it was the kind of enhanced super self control that people often discuss in relation to Bella?
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby Kachiti » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:19 pm

Yes, but not just super control but the ability he has of injecting calm into a situation. His uncanny way of making friends and how they all care for him. Whenever there is a problem they go to him to talk it out. He spent some time with the volturi and they consider him a friend. He called witnesses for Nessie and they all came. So yes, I do believe that Carlisle has gift.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby December » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:04 pm

I think you're spot on, Jazz Girl. Edward certainly thinks so:

"Carlisle has a theory...he believes that we all bring something of our strongest human traits with us into the next life, where they are intensified -- like our minds, amnd our senses...."

"What did he bring into the next life, and the others?"

"Carlisle brought his compassion." (TW Ch.14)


Not exactly enhanced self-control, but a gift which keeps him from killing people just as effectively: a preternatural unwillingness to harm others.
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Re: Carlisle Cullen

Postby Jazz Girl » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:21 pm

December wrote:I think you're spot on, Jazz Girl. Edward certainly thinks so:

"Carlisle has a theory...he believes that we all bring something of our strongest human traits with us into the next life, where they are intensified -- like our minds, amnd our senses...."

"What did he bring into the next life, and the others?"

"Carlisle brought his compassion." (TW Ch.14)


Not exactly enhanced self-control, but a gift which keeps him from killing people just as effectively: a preternatural unwillingness to harm others.



December~ Hmm, honestly, how many times have I read that quote and didn't even put the two together, at least not in that capacity. *slaps forehead* Yes, that does make a lot of sense. And, it also addresses Rings' issue of lessening Carlisle's accomplishment. It certainly wouldn't physically make any easier to resist the blood. But, it would provide a competing instinct that he could use to his advantage. Thank you for connecting my dots. :D
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