rollie715 wrote: It is interesting that on the surface, the Lion and the Lamb stereotype is seen as Edward the Predator Lion and Bella the Prey Lamb, just as in Pride and Prejudice our 'first impressions' of who has the Pride and who has the Prejudice seem to get reversed as we understand the story better. To me, Edward was the Lamb trying to protect himself and Bella was the Lion who pursued him relentlessly.
rollie715 wrote: To me, Edward was the Lamb trying to protect himself and Bella was the Lion who pursued him relentlessly. Edward felt weak, vulnerable, afraid, and not in control, exactly the feelings any normal adolescent boy has when dealing with his first serious relationship. He tried to stay away from her, he warned her to keep her distance, and continually tried to keep himself in control when she was around. Initially his focus was only on himself and coming to grips with his own feelings, but that developed into an interest in her and a feeling of responsibility that included wanting to take care of and protect her. He had a natural tendency to overact and that came out in his over protectiveness. I see his controlling behavior as a result of an adolescent with super powers who was trying to come to grips with the more mature role of learning to be a provider and protector. I don't believe he handled it all perfectly, as none of us do as we go through these changes, but I do believe his heart and intentions were in the right place and would allow him to improve in the areas he was weak and actually become the kind of man any girl or woman would want as her own.
I don't condone destructive or controlling behavior or even defend every situation in the saga as recommended reading to impressionable young women, but instead view it as a wonderful opportunity to expose them to these issues and open up productive avenues of discussion.
rollie715 wrote:It appears that SM used the term Dazzled many times in the text, but I’m not sure I’ve seen it used in the movies. This refers to the ability Edward had to influence people to get what he wants, especially the females young and old. During the course of a conversation using his mannerisms, eyes, and words, he seemed to have the ability to effect the emotions of the prey and cause them to melt or yield to his wishes. I believe Edward did use these techniques on Bella, but I’m not sure they were always intentional or with malice. He probably developed these techniques naturally over the last 100 years as he experienced life as a new vampire and they just became part of his normal personality. Bella comments often of how she is influenced to change her thinking or behavior when he Dazzles her. His response sometimes, which I think is honest, is that he doesn’t always realize he is doing it. I’m guessing he had developed somewhat of an attitude of superiority towards humans, not only physically but as he could read their thoughts, he must have felt they were all so involved in such petty concerns, they may have even bored him.
vampirenerd wrote:When it comes to dazzling, I truly believe that until Bella called him on it he didn't realize what he was doing. He tells Bella at one poing that everything about him, his looks, his smell, are made to attract his prey (humans), to draw them in. I think that his ability to dazzle is one of the ways to draw them in. In the movies the only time I can recall him doing it to anyone else other than Bella is when he's with Angela and jessica outside the restaurant. I don't think it's portrayed very well, but I think that's more to do with bad acting than anything else. I agree that he has developed somewhat of a superiority complex over humans. He has spent his whole vampire life being able to read the minds of all the humans around him, add that to his other vampire abilities and it is easy to see how something as insignificant (in his eyes) as dazzling would escape his notice.
corona wrote:EDIT: Thank goodness for the Preview button. I was originally going to use the phrase “tool in his a.r.s.e.n.a.l.” and the board software changed it to “tool in his backside”, which I really don’t think Edward would appreciate.
December wrote:Yes, there's been a lot of discussion of this subject over the years -- some of it extremely illuminating, some of it perhaps less edifying, and rather, er, fractious. If you're interested in going back to the very beginnings of the debate over Edward's more ...um...high-handed behaviour and whether one finds it understandable or obnoxious, you might enjoy having a look at Tennyo's original "Edward-Controlling?" threads in the Lexicon Archive, which date back even before EC came out....
(I hope I'm not stirring up trouble here...).
And just a reminder -- which I'm sure none of you needs! -- that this is a perennially touchy subject. Please please be extra-specially careful to express your views moderately, with respect and courtesy towards other people who may feel differently. We're not here to challenge each other's opinions, just to explain our own, and ideally learn something from other people's varied viewpoints.
Ok, sorry. Just had to say that. (*grin*)
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