Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:07 pm

Hey Rings!

ringswraith wrote:Just because Bella falls even a little bit for Jacob does not make her... an "easy woman." She's human. It happens. Now, comparing her to Edward and saying that he'll never kiss another girl or fall in love with someone else? Guess what? He's not human. That's not a fair comparison to Bella.


Agreed. Bella certainly has her faults, and does her fair share of hurtful, stupid, selfish, and wrong things, in this love triangle situation and in life in general. But she, like Jacob, is human, and young. To truly compare either of them to Edward, who's NOT human, and who's not young is utterly unfair.

ringswraith wrote:Next, I shudder to think of just how many people read this series and think that love is supposed to be like this. And, by extension, what kind of "lesson" kids are getting from reading it. If you cannot separate reality from fantasy, that's a much bigger issue that cannot be addressed here. This is a work of fiction, not an instructional work.


I always get crap for saying things like this, but I totally agree, again. This series does, however, bring up real issues that are good and interesting to discuss. Sometimes I enjoy looking at it and thinking "if this happened for real..." but that sort of discussion always seems to start problems.

ringswraith wrote:Jacob became quite obsessive and controlling in his own right. Like when he realized a vampire (Alice, it turns out) was in Bella's home and he wanted to take her away, even after she told him she knew who was there. He may have been "healthier" in a sense, but I don't think he's necessarily "better" than Edward. I like to think that, if Edward were human and brought up in the same time as Jacob, they'd end up quite a bit alike. Jacob exists to show Bella that she has that option, the option to stay human, and be human, and remain with her human friends and family- and to illustrate to her just what she's giving up in order to be with Edward.


Some of this I disagree with, and some we're on the same page. I suppose you could say Jacob was controlling, if you wanted. But I would like to say this, about the specific example you used. Alice and the Cullens had left, and left Bella in quite a state too. And I would also like to point out that when she decided to go, he let her go. He has a right to feel angry, hurt, betrayed, to not want her to go, any emotion he wants and it's not being controlling. Plus, Bella doesn't always have the best decision making skills, nor the best danger assessment skills, correct?

It's interesting that you bring up the time period that Edward was raised in. I tried to bring up the point some time ago that maybe the reason that when Edward was scared and desperate, he resorted to something so outlandish and so wrong in today's society IS when he was brought up. In the early 1900s, it wouldn't have been considered all that wrong to lock a woman up if a man felt it necessary. I'm NOT saying that Edward thought his actions were right - he admits they were wrong. What I'm saying is that maybe, because he was so desperate, he crossed a line that should NEVER be crossed today but could have been crossed then - reverted to his instincts.

Please understand. I'm fully aware that Edward views men and women as equal, that he's grown and changed amazingly considering the different time periods he's had to span, the different views he's had to adapt to. And I want to agree with you, Rings, that Edward and Jake would be very similar if raised in the same time period. Maybe not in personality, but certainly in morals and values and principles. I think, in many respects, they're already very similar in these ways. I think the way they carry out their beliefs would be more similar were they raised at the same time.

ringswraith wrote:About "Jacob's Bella" being Renesmee: She (Renesmee) wasn't even around at the time of New Moon or Eclipse, so how is that reasoning made? Now if you meant during the pregnancy, that's a bit different, but it sounds as if you're equating Bella's falling for Jacob to being due to someone who doesn't exist at that point in the story.[/color]


This is my LEAST favorite theory out there. You'd be surprised how many people are quick to jump at the "Jacob and Bella were only in love because of Renesmee" bandwagon. It's almost a relief to some people, as if the fact that they were just in love is horrifying, and somehow dirties her love with Edward. :?
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby bored by the sea » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:10 am

heres the thing i kind of agree with some of the points made on here (theres soooo many im being lazy+i cant be bothered to quote them all :lol: ) soo im just going to put what i feel about this whole situation out there :) . i really do believe that Bella truly loves Edward and he back (obviously) i dont think that their relation ship is unhealthy in anyway as some people have said, and as for what she feels about Jacob i truly think that its the love for a friend a best friend, its just that Jake kind of tricks her a little at some points (even though yes he does love her) esp the part in Eclipse when he essentially emotionally bribes her into kissing him by saying that hes basically going to kill himself in the fight! now yes some of you may say well if she did it then she probably wanted to do it all along but who knows, in that kind of moment i guess your emotions would be extremely exagerrated a little maybe?
:lol: now im totally rambling and cant really remember exactly where i was going with this but anyway, erm yeah someone mentioned the whole theory of jacob only loved Bella because of Renesmee theory, clearly not because as every1 has said she doesnt even exist until Breaking Dawn, what about the fact that he imprinted on her because shes a part of Bella maybe?! :)
im going2stop here because i literally am just rambling, which usually happens when im discussing this topic with me and my m8s one of whom is Team Jacob and just doesnt get it! :lol:
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby britneyfangt » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:01 pm

The “love triangle”? I REALLY don’t like it. Don’t worry, I’ll be really nice about it, so keep reading.

I really don’t believe in them, true love triangles I mean. They MAY make good drama stories for TV and books but, in real life, not so much. I think they’re just an excuse for people who can’t make up their mind, do to the fact that they have no clue what they want. I agree that you can love many people at the same time, but you can only be IN love with ONE person at a time. I’m living proof. I have many, many, many friends, that are girls, whom I love very dearly. However, when it came down to deciding if I was actually IN LOVE with one of them, I’m not going to say that it was easy, but it wasn’t exactly difficult either. I know completely what I like and what I don’t like, so I just had to find the person who I was the right fit for and that was the right fit for me.

Unfortunately, I think Ms. Meyers just put it in so that she could have a story line for the other books. I don't think she ever really plan to make more than one book, so she had to come up with something to create trouble for Bella and Edward in order to keep readers interested. I found it sad how she turned Jacob from a cool, well mannered, good hearted, happy go lucky teenager in Twilight to an average guy-guy who’s just a jerk, IN MY OPINION. I apologize for offending all the Team Jacob members.
It doesn’t quite fit, according to Bella’s personality trades described in Twilight. Bella is supposed to be stubborn because she completely makes up her mind about things. So if she already made her mind up about loving Edward there is no need or room for her to be KINDA in love with Jacob. She would completely know how to differentiate the friend-love she feels for Jacob from the passionate true love she feels for Edward. And there is NO WAY she would have kissed back Jacob in Eclipse.

In real life, or in coherent writing, love triangles don’t really happen. People who are truly your best friends won’t stand in your way of happiness. They won’t force themselves on you. They won’t pin you down and kiss you against your will. At least that’s the kind of friends I’ve always had and the kind of friend I’ve always been.

As for if Bella had chosen Jacob? I think they could have been happy, but not completely. Jacob would have been ECSTATIC, but Bella would have always felt something was missing. Bella fulfills Jacob completely, but Jacob fulfills Bella only half way.

Women should always stride to find their Edwards and not just settle for their Jacobs. Edwards may be difficult to find but they’re out there and SO worth it.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:49 pm

You have all very valid points, and I respect your opinion and your right to it, as you've been respectful of dissenting opinions already. But I would like to remind you that because that's the way it worked for you doesn't mean that's the way it works for everyone.

I am living proof that there ARE real love triangles in real life. Just because they haven't happened to you, specifically, doesn't mean they don't happen.

Ah, if only we could decide how we felt! It would make life so much easier! I could decide to be happy about the things in my life that were sad. I could decide I didn't love someone who doesn't love me back, or that I do love someone who does love me that I don't feel the same way about. Everything would work out perfectly, with no loose ends.

The kind of friends I've always had, and the kind of friend I've always been, have been happy for me to be happy, but they've got my back too. I've done stupid things and I was happy while doing them, but my friends could see the long-term consequences of my happiness, and decided my long term happiness was more important. They decided it was more important that I see the whole picture, that I consider all my options, before I choose something that was irreversible. I truly believe that if, in any one of these instances, after separating my own emotions from the situation, if I had still thought it best, they would have accepted that and tried to be happy for me, just as Jacob was. I would rather have friends like that, who care enough to put themselves through Hell for the slim chance that I go into a life-determining decision knowing all the pros and all the cons, than ones who would let me walk away just for the sake of not making waves, or making a show of being "happy for me." And I know that my friends, after I had made a fully-informed decision and shown them that it was the right decision, would then be happy for me. That's good enough. I know I'm human, I know I have human faults and flaws and I don't always make impeccable decisions. That's one reason why friends are so important. They aren't scared to tell you the hard stuff.

With your last statement, I would really hope that by their "Edward" you mean the person they want to be with the most and by their "Jacob" you mean someone they love but isn't their true love. Because I am looking for a Jacob. I want a love that is simple and pure and less dramatic and stifling than Bella and Edward's. I want love to be a part of my life, not my reason for existence. I don't think Bella and Edward's love is healthy by human standards, which is fine since they're not human. I'm looking for my own sun, not an addiction, and so are a lot of other girls out there. Which, I'm assuming, is what you meant?
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby britneyfangt » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:41 am

I didn’t mean the actual characters. Everybody has different tastes and preferences.

What I meant with “their Edward” and “their Jacob” is this:
Stephanie Meyer said that she made the “love triangle” in order to make Bella decide between fantasy love and real love. Edward being the fantasy love and Jacob being the real love. I will ALWAYS go for the “fantasy” love because I think that should be the ultimate goal, to reach perfection. To ME real love equals settling for something “inferior” or “not as good as”. It’s giving up. I always set “impossibly” high standards for myself and demand of myself to achieve perfection 100% of the time. It doesn’t happen like that all the time but it would happen even less if I didn’t set the bar that high.

I hate it when people say that looking for your "prince charming" is dumb and unrealistic, the only thing that accomplished is giving guys permission to slack off because women lowered their expectations and let guys get away with a lot of things just because they were now looking for more “realistic” qualities in them. Expecting extraordinary things from guys makes them try harder and longer.

I actually like the movie characters more than the ones in the book. The movies left out all the “bad” things and made Edward more relatable and Jacob more likeable (at least until I see how they portray the forced kisses scenes). What it essentially comes down to is that I don’t like the way Stephanie Meyers portrayed it in the book.

Of course we can’t decide WHEN to feel something, but we can decide WHAT we feel about certain things. Either you like people who are easy going, patient and introverted or you like people who are high maintenance, hyper and outgoing. You can decide that you like people who are single or people who have significant others. (This comparisons have nothing to do with the characters in the book).

I also don’t like people who just say “yes” to everything and never tell you when you’re doing something wrong. I prefer people that tell me their honest opinion. The key difference is that they never MAKE ME do what THEY think it’s right, they just give me honest feedback and let me make up my own mind. In the book Jacob is always forcing HIS opinion on Bella. Like I said, I didn’t like the way it was portrayed in the book. It’s comparable (to me) with telling your friend that she shouldn’t date someone who’s ok with gay marriage because YOU don’t believe in it. It’s just wrong. (Again, this is just my opinion).

I’ve always hated the stories where a girl can’t enjoy her romance because the “best friend” is in love with her and now she feels guilty for not loving him back, so now she forces herself to try to be in love with her best friend to make himm feel good or to “make sure” she didn’t make a mistake. It only confuses things in an unnecessary way. I would never do that to a friend in a relationship. If I didn’t have the nerve to ask her out when she was single what gives me the right to ruin her current relationship? I just wouldn’t feel worthy of her.

I love discussing this topic because I truly want to understand the "other side" since it doesn't make any sense to me. That's my only goal here, not to make others think like me, just share my opinion and try to understand everyone elses.

Respectfully yours, Ethan.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:51 pm

Clearly our goals line up then! I truly hope that's how I came off, and if it's not, my apologies.

I honestly think the two sides just see it differently. I could go on and on about why I disagree with you about Jacob, but since this is supposed to be about all three of them, I won't. If you're interested, feel free to shoot me a PM! I love to discuss that respectfully!

I couldn't agree more about girls holding out for their "prince charming" whoever that may be, whatever he may be like. So many women settle for guys that treat them like crap because they don't believe there's better out there. It's true that all guys make mistakes, but the worthwhile ones won't make a habit of them. Too many girls confuse being reasonable and forgiving with being a doormat.

I thought the characters in the book were pretty similar to the ones in the movie, questionable acting abilities aside. Maybe you're forgetting that Jacob did start out as just a goofy neighborhood kid with a crush. He stays that way to me the whole way through, but some people lose that boy when he changes. And that's okay. I lose Edward after Twilight.

Gosh, you're life must be simpler than mine, because I can't change how I feel, and I think most other people are the same way. I like people based on what kind of people they are. I have some friends who are very outgoing, laid-back, and patient and I have friends who are introverted and high-maintenance. I don't get what having a significant other or not has to do with liking someone. It doesn't change who you are.

I get what you're saying about friends. However, I just don't see it the way you do. Your examples are all perfectly reasonable and I even agree with you, but this is something more than them. Deciding to become a vampire is very different from dating someone who doesn't agree with your politics. It's permanent, and it's a much more serious and much less ignorable issue. Also, remember that Jacob was not going to force his hand until he learned Edward was going to change her.

If life were purely logical, then your last point would make perfect sense. However, it's not. And also, if you're referring to the characters in this book, Jacob never had a chance to ask her out. By the time she met him, she was already with Edward. You may be a person who can separate your emotions from a situation, but the whole world isn't like that you know? I'm all for selflessness, but I don't think you have to be THAT selfless. What if a girl is in a relationship with a jerk who treats her badly and is just generally bad for her?

I don't expect any of this babbling to change your mind. It's probably not even coherent. Just to maybe open your eyes to the "other side."
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby Edwards Ragazza » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:26 pm

In the end we know who she ends up with. However everyone has their opinions about which boy is healthier for Bella. If we where to remove all the supernatural in this story shapes shifters and vampires and make Jacob and Edward regular people they acted out the same. For example both were jealous of one another both wanted to protect her. They had the same characteristics as any human being in a relationship would. No matter what BOTH had good intentions for Bella.While yes I am with the Edwards crowd I will stick up for Jacob and his intentions in a human view.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby vampirenerd » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:44 pm

Wow, a lot of good points made here and then some I don't necessarily agree with. I'm going to just start typing and I'm sure I'll forget something but hopefully I'll get most of it. I'm still undecided as to how I feel about the "triangle". I can't believe someone feels that kissing a boy you've grown to love after your first love left you and you truly believe he's not coming back makes you a *****. I agree that Bella is only human and anyone in that situation would at least have the same urges. There are things about Bella and Edward's relationship that annoy me. Sometimes I feel like Edward is way to controlling and I really don't like how Bella's whole world becomes completely about Edward (I loved how they showed that in the New Moon movie, when she's taking pictures of Mike, Eric, Jessica, and Angela and then Edward comes up and Mike says something like "oh great, Cullens here" and Bella goes from semi-depressed to happy). It seems like all of her friends and other things she likes she puts off to concentrate solely on Edward.

When it comes to Jacob I agree that he's just a kid, he doesn't have the centuries of experience that Edward has. So when it seems like he's pushing himself on her or whatever it's just because he doesn't know how to act. We've all at some point been through that awkard stage where we're not kids but not adults and we don't really know how to act. He's doing the best he can and he really cares for her. I don't like the fact that he pushes for more than she's willing to give but I have to at least admit that I understand.

I have to agree with you, HOFJ and Britney. I hate that so many girls out there settle for less than they deserve because they've been told that a "prince charming" doesn't exist. No, there aren't any perfect guys out there and they're all going to have traits/habits that you don't like. That doesn't mean that you have to settle for a guy who isn't as close to perfect FOR YOU as you can get. Just like all guys are different, all girls are too and a guy who is right for one girl isn't right for them all. HOFJ, I'm with you on the fact that I can't decide how I feel. I like a person/place/thing depending on the individual situation. I can't just decide to like, or not like, something/someone just because of a type. I am VERY influenced by my feelings, and sometimes that makes me overly emotional but that's something I can't help. I can't decide what to be happy or sad about, or who to like or not like. It just happens and I have to go with it.

In the end, after all that I've said and all that I've read I'm still undecided. I agree that the "triangle" helped to further the plot. I also agree that each one of our boys have some good and bad in them and the things they do. I just can't decide which one I like more or decide which one behaved in the best way because their situations, lifestyles, and everything are completely different. I will say that I truly believe Bella loved them both and that they both loved Bella. In the end she was happy with Edward and I guess until I can make up my mind that will have to be good enough for me.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby vampirenerd » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:55 pm

I knew I would forget something lol. On the subject of "loving/being in love" with more than one person at a time: I believe that you can be in love with more than one person at a time. I don't feel that it's a matter of not being able to or not being willing to decide. Like I said before there is no such thing as a perfect guy (or girl) but you can find someone as close to perfect for you. That also means, IMO, that you can find two people close to perfect for you. I believe that you can be in love with them, maybe not equally, and have a hard time in choosing who is best for you.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby pennybug84 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:35 am

I thought there was a different thread to post this in but apparently not I can't find it. But it works here too.

I like/hate the love triangle at the same time. I am a totally Team Edward girl (I CAN'T STAND Jacob.)

I have the WalMart NM dvd w/the Eclipse extras on it & in there SM talks about the triangle: "I wanted her to really have to look at what she was choosing & what she was giving up & put full weight on both of those choices before she made it." I've always kind of figured that was the role of Jacob & Bella falling in love with him, but I loved hearing those words come out of SM's mouth!! I honestly don't really know how I feel about the loving two guys at the same time. I've never been in love so that could affect my decision. I've honestly never really thought about it much before reading the saga. The idea does seem kind of weird to me.
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