Jessica Stanley

Character Discussion Forum

Moderators: December, Bronze Haired Girl, una

Forum rules
Character Discussion Forum

Click for Forum Rules

Re: Jessica Stanley

Postby moon sidhe » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:34 pm

Amivera wrote:
moon sidhe wrote:If you really want to do that, and you want to reap some rewards and personal discovery out of all your efforts, there are better books to do it with.


No, no. I'm not on these discussion forums so I can make some huge discovery of demonic messages hidden within the syntax. :twisted:

These are *discussion* forums, are they not? They're to discuss the characters, and if there is no deep discussion, what exactly is there to do? O.O


I'm not saying they shouldn't be discussed at all. I certainly enjoy discussing them. :)

But I am saying, don't expect more out of the books than what they were intended to be. Personally, I can ignore the shortcomings in the writing and the character development, because, overall, I just really enjoyed the story. Feel free to correct me, but you seem almost disappointed by the books, like they could have been so much better. And you know, I think that's true. There are many places where they could have been, but, once again, they were just meant to be fun and that's how I took them. So I just don't understand the desire to find and beat to death all these trivial details that were bothersome. If I want a book where the writing and character development are impeccable, I can just pick another one up off my shelf.
You are in my blood like holy wine
and you taste so bitter but you taste so sweet
Oh I could drink a case of you darling
And I would still be on my feet
User avatar
moon sidhe
Helping Mike to Get a Clue
 
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:09 am

Re: Jessica Stanley

Postby pubesy » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:00 pm

but NO book, or fictional character has PERFECT or COMPLETE character development. humans are complex and incomplete characters, so how can anyone expect a book to create all their characters as complete?

and anyway, half the fun of fiction is being able to create YOUR OWN persona of each character using the information the author gives you, and filling in the blanks with your own imagination!
Team Switzerland - Thanks for the sig Alysha
Image
adultes lexiconum recipientes nuntiis singulis
User avatar
pubesy
Teaching Eric Social Graces
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:37 am

Re: Jessica Stanley

Postby glstewart » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:36 pm

Amivera: I have to admit that I'm a little sad for you..you really think Jessica was a good friend in Twilight? I'm not sure how I would have thought of her when I was your age, but I can tell you from my side of the hill -- Jessica was NOT a good friend to Bella, or to anyone else. A "good" friend simply doesn't behave the way Jessica behaves. Jessica is a snarky, self-serving _itch. Girls like that grow up to be women like that. If Jessica can claim to be any kind of friend to Bella, I would define it as shallow and temporary.

Also, you accuse Bella of ditching her friends when she started going out with Edward. Actually, we don't really know that. We don't have any information about what happened during the summer between Twilight and New Moon (although it's a pretty good guess that she spent most of her time with the Cullens). Bella noticed that MikeandJessica didn't survive the summer, but was glad that BenandAngela did. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, just a defenisve aside to the Bella Swan Cullen thread, I guess.

If Jessica were truly a good friend, she would have been able to understand Bella's utter desolation over Edward, and given her time -- you know, the way Angela did. Bella only asked Jessica to the movies after "the wake-up" because Charlie was forcing her to get out more, and she chose Jessica because she was shallow and temporary. Bella was still in no mood for any sort of girlfriend heart-to-heart chats. If I were in Jessica's shoes, and my friend was drifting off towards a group of shifty-looking strange guys, I would grab her by the arm and drag her off to a safe, well-lit, public area -- and then demanded to know what the heck she was thinking. Jessica just snarls and gets pissy about the whole thing, once again only thinking of herself. The girl doesn't have an ouce of compassion.
I Want to Believe
glstewart
Teaching Eric Social Graces
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Roaming the woods with Jake

Re: Jessica Stanley

Postby Shakespeare » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:01 am

Jessica is not the perfect friend, but nor is she as horrible as you make her out to be, glstewart. She welcomes Bella on her first day and even invites her to sit at her table. She does act a bit territorial about Mike, but she never takes it to any extreme. Bella notes that Jessica sincerely wants her to come to the dance after her date with Mike is ensured. (Bella's presence would probably take away from her time with Mike, too.) She also goes on a girl's night out with Bella. I don't see how that is something a horrible friend would do.
In New Moon, Bella turns into a zombie. Meyer just skipped over most of this with her blank pages, but it's probably safe to assume that Bella was a bit of a depressing sight at the lunch table. However, Jessica never turns this into a huge issue. She is understandably angry at Bella and although turning away from her was not the most friendly thing to do, it was not entirely unacceptable. Bella's zombie trance must have been depressing to watch. Why shouldn't Jessica be angry at her? It was four months of moping over her boyfriend.
Really, the only example we have of Jessica acting snarky is when Bella endangers her life by walking toward the men. NO, Jessica's actions were not heroic, but they were understandable. Again, remember that this is the first thing Bella does after coming out of her zombie trance. Jessica has every right to be mad at her.

Yes, Angela is a better friend, but that does not make Jessica a horrible friend.
I'm actually an anti. I don't like the Twilight series at all.

I'm here because I enjoy discussing literature and I think it's often much more interesting to talk to people who disagree with you.

And yes, I have read the books. ;)
User avatar
Shakespeare
Wandering Through Town
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:27 pm

Re: Jessica Stanley

Postby moon sidhe » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:42 am

I agree that Jessica was more of a shallow, temporary friend than anything else. I think reading Midnight Sun makes it pretty clear what her intentions towards Bella were, and they were never kind. Jessica was using Bella purely for social status. The territoriality with Mike, where she had no real claim, as well as only being ok with Bella going to the dance after she had secured her date with Mike, aren't really aspects that make me like her either. Although Bella doesn't suspect the full extent, I think even she realizes in Twilight that Jessica is only interested in hearing details about her life for the sake of gossip. Jessica was not interested because she actually cared about Bella. I do, however, agree that Jessica had a right to be angry when Bella walked towards the men at the bar.
You are in my blood like holy wine
and you taste so bitter but you taste so sweet
Oh I could drink a case of you darling
And I would still be on my feet
User avatar
moon sidhe
Helping Mike to Get a Clue
 
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:09 am

Re: Jessica Stanley

Postby Amivera » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:54 am

glstewart wrote:Amivera: I have to admit that I'm a little sad for you..you really think Jessica was a good friend in Twilight? I'm not sure how I would have thought of her when I was your age, but I can tell you from my side of the hill -- Jessica was NOT a good friend to Bella, or to anyone else.

Sympathy is unnecessary. I think Jessica was a good friend. If you feel sorry for me for having opinions, I feel sorry for you for feeling sorry for me for having opinions. :D
I'm surprised you have such high standards. Perhaps you read your friends' minds to make sure they don't think anything negative about you...?

A "good" friend simply doesn't behave the way Jessica behaves. Jessica is a snarky, self-serving _itch. Girls like that grow up to be women like that. If Jessica can claim to be any kind of friend to Bella, I would define it as shallow and temporary.

Behave in what way?
BEHAVE, you say. How does Jessica behave? She welcomes Bella on the first day, she invites her into their group of friends, introduces her to Angela, invites her to Port Angeles, acts genuinely interested when Bella is talking about her and Edward after, agrees to go to the movies with Bella even though she'd been kicked aside for months while Bella was with Edward and moping afterward, and is understandably frightened when Bella begins to draw the attention of a group of large men. (Because Bella *was* trying to put them in danger)

I'd say she behaved pretty kindly.

If Jessica were truly a good friend, she would have been able to understand Bella's utter desolation over Edward, and given her time -- you know, the way Angela did. Bella only asked Jessica to the movies after "the wake-up" because Charlie was forcing her to get out more, and she chose Jessica because she was shallow and temporary. Bella was still in no mood for any sort of girlfriend heart-to-heart chats.


I'm sure she DID understand Bella's depression and what-not, but Jessica wasn't there for every cheesy conversation Bella had with Edward. She did not know the depth of their relationship and about their 'true love'. What she saw was a girl who had known a guy for a few months and was suddenly acting like she had died, ignoring everyone around her in the process.

I'm sure she understood Bella for the first month or so, but when an entire season went by, she probably felt it was pointless. Jessica agreed to go with Bella to the movies, because she was being a good friend. How can you say she had other motives? There's a bit of cynicism going around here.

Bella *was* in the mood for listening to Jessica talk and talk, that's why she chose her. Perhaps Bella was in the wrong, then, if she only chose to go out with Jessica, because she was 'shallow and temporary'.



If I were in Jessica's shoes, and my friend was drifting off towards a group of shifty-looking strange guys, I would grab her by the arm and drag her off to a safe, well-lit, public area -- and then demanded to know what the heck she was thinking. Jessica just snarls and gets pissy about the whole thing, once again only thinking of herself.


Good for you. Perhaps Jessica did not want to risk her life like Bella unthinkingly does all the time. If you're going to berate Jessica for this small action, there are a million-and-one things you can pin down on Bella.

And I second Shakespeare on just about everything.
Blackwater. <3

potterpuff @ lj
User avatar
Amivera
Hiding Lauren's Hair Dye
 
Posts: 421
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: Jessica Stanley

Postby glstewart » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:19 am

[quote="BEHAVE, you say. How does Jessica behave? She welcomes Bella on the first day, she invites her into their group of friends, introduces her to Angela, invites her to Port Angeles, acts genuinely interested when Bella is talking about her and Edward after, agrees to go to the movies with Bella even though she'd been kicked aside for months while Bella was with Edward and moping afterward, and is understandably frightened when Bella begins to draw the attention of a group of large men. (Because Bella *was* trying to put them in danger)

I'd say she behaved pretty kindly.[/quote]

Jessica welcomes Bella on the first day for the same reason everyone else does. Bella is the "shiny new toy" among a group of people who have known each other forever. Yes, you're right, that was a kind thing to do, but even without reading Midnight Sun, it was pretty obvious to me that Jessica's friendliness was merely a passing gesture. By "passing", I mean no more than a few weeks. Jessica can afford to "care" about others as long as that caring serves herself. I don't have my book with me right now, or the time to offer examples of the dialogue and behavior that shapes my opinion of Jessica.

No I don't read my friends' minds, but if and when I realize that their actions and words aren't in sync with how they really feel, it becomes clear that they aren't real friends at all, just passing acquaintances.
I Want to Believe
glstewart
Teaching Eric Social Graces
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Roaming the woods with Jake

Re: Jessica Stanley

Postby moon sidhe » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:35 am

I think we're going in circles here. I think it comes down to either being ok with someone using you for social gain and only being nice to your face, or not being ok with it. I don't think we're going to be changing one another's mind on this front any time soon.
You are in my blood like holy wine
and you taste so bitter but you taste so sweet
Oh I could drink a case of you darling
And I would still be on my feet
User avatar
moon sidhe
Helping Mike to Get a Clue
 
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:09 am

Re: Jessica Stanley

Postby glstewart » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:14 pm

moon sidhe wrote:I think we're going in circles here. I think it comes down to either being ok with someone using you for social gain and only being nice to your face, or not being ok with it. I don't think we're going to be changing one another's mind on this front any time soon.



You're spot-on right -- we'll all just have to agree to disagree on this one.
I Want to Believe
glstewart
Teaching Eric Social Graces
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Roaming the woods with Jake

Re: Jessica Stanley

Postby Destani » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:41 pm

I haven't read the Midnight Sun draft so I don't have that to go on, but I did read the first chapter a while ago. I really wasn't expecting Jessica to have such hateful thoughts about Bella. Based on Twilight, where I guess I was seeing things through Bella's perception, I knew Jessica was jealous and gossipy and sort of used Bella at times, but I didn't realize how deep that went.

In New Moon, I was a little miffed at Jessica for being mad at Bella after all she had been through, but I realized that Jessica had no concept of the connection between Bella and Edward. I understood that she would have seen it as the end of a typical high school romance, something to be sad about, maybe even depressed, but Bella's reaction must have seemed over the top.

So when I read the harsh thoughts going through Jessica's mind on that very first day, I was a bit shocked.
Image
Images courtesy of: http://robbuz.deviantart.com/
User avatar
Destani
Banging Out Dents with Tyler
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:13 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Sparkling in the Sun

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest