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Re: Jacob Black

Postby AgentCross » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:07 pm

I like Jake a lot, more then I did during the second and third book. I think he did sacrifice a lot for Bella, but I also think in the end... he understood how Edward and Bella felt about each other. That night in the tent really helped.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby cataclysm » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:11 pm

Liv-wa wrote:I see the Jacob board is back and going strong [:

As my first post after Breaking Dawn defending Jake:
How could people not like, if not love him after the book was done and over with. I mean come on, he gave up EVERYTHING for Bella. Most people would have looked the other way. I couldn't even imagine having to turn my back on my family to protect this species that is supposed to be your mortal enemy. I don't think I would have been able to do it.



I won't blame people for not loving Jake (I still don't 'love' Edward, though I do like him). However, your comment on him turning his back on the pack sort of highlights another excellent part of Book II. Jake truly is a dynamic character. Not only did he retain his essential 'jakeness' to me, but he grew over the course of the book. He went from wanting to destroy the cullens to protecting them, not only b/c of his love for bella, but because it was the right thing to do. He grew to understand and empathize with what leah was going through. Even though we saw less of him in Book III, he still seemed mostly in character, even though his priorities had undergone a major change after imprinting on Nessie. Dog gone it! It's so sad we won't get more of his story....
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby IceisNice » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:39 am

Jacob has officially redeemed himself to me! I love him now. It did really help me to know that he and Bella didn't love each other-at least not in that way anymore, but I also loved getting to know him. He's funny! And he's so brave, and willing to stand up for what he knows is right, even if it might cause him pain. When I first flipped through Breaking Dawn, I saw that the middle of the book was through his point of view, and became slightly disappointed. I didn't want to read the world through his point of view! Now, however, the middle of the book has become my favorite part! Jacob is sarcastic, but also sweet. When I read Eclipse for the second time, I started to fall in love with Jacob, if only just to a little bit. Now, I'm totally in love with him-and Seth, and Edward. Why did he have to imprint! Now my day dreams are completely untrue! And yes, I know that they wouldn't be possible even if he didn't imprint, but anyways... I finally understand him, and I'm so glad I do.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:02 am

FIRST of all, jacob did not in any way attack bella at any time during eclipse EVER. i find that very offensive. what jaocb did was NOT assault, it was a case of mixed signals. assault is something done with the intent to injure or hurt the person you are assaulting, and that obviously was NOT the case here. that is extremely offensive, way out of line, ignorant, and, most importantly, against the manifesto.

agentcross, you have seriously offended me, so i'm trying very hard in my next comment to be reserved.
i don't think you understand jacob's intentions at all. jacob always knew how bella and edward felt about each other. he also always knew that if bella stayed with edward, he'd turn her into a vampire. he was trying to save her life, not win her just because he wanted to be with her, but SAVE HER LIFE.

in what way did the tent scene "really help" jacob?? it really hurt him. he thought he and edward had come to some prickly truce, and then edward was incredibly manipulative and mean to him. jacob always knew how in love they were. he didn't need to hear about the "top ten nights they've spent together" that's just sick.

jacob's main goal was to save her life, and the only way he could see that she would choose life was for her to realize she was in love with him too. and when she realizes she does, and tells him so, but says it's just not enough, he says he understands, and he backs off. he accepts it. he even says they can probably work out a "long distance friendship".

oh, by the way, by "next best thing" i didn't mean that he loved bella more in any way or was settling for her over bella or anything. i think that in a natural world, they would have had true love, which is rare enough in itself (they would be sort of a westley/buttercup sort of thing...if anyone gets that). but then fate shifted slightly, and jacob ended up being meant for the closest thing to bella - her daughter. i hope that made more sense.

liv-wa, cataclysm, so good to see you guys back!
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby AgentCross » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:09 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:FIRST of all, jacob did not in any way attack bella at any time during eclipse EVER. i find that very offensive. what jaocb did was NOT assault, it was a case of mixed signals. assault is something done with the intent to injure or hurt the person you are assaulting, and that obviously was NOT the case here. that is extremely offensive, way out of line, ignorant, and, most importantly, against the manifesto.

agentcross, you have seriously offended me, so i'm trying very hard in my next comment to be reserved.
i don't think you understand jacob's intentions at all. jacob always knew how bella and edward felt about each other. he also always knew that if bella stayed with edward, he'd turn her into a vampire. he was trying to save her life, not win her just because he wanted to be with her, but SAVE HER LIFE.

in what way did the tent scene "really help" jacob?? it really hurt him. he thought he and edward had come to some prickly truce, and then edward was incredibly manipulative and mean to him. jacob always knew how in love they were. he didn't need to hear about the "top ten nights they've spent together" that's just sick.

jacob's main goal was to save her life, and the only way he could see that she would choose life was for her to realize she was in love with him too. and when she realizes she does, and tells him so, but says it's just not enough, he says he understands, and he backs off. he accepts it. he even says they can probably work out a "long distance friendship".

oh, by the way, by "next best thing" i didn't mean that he loved bella more in any way or was settling for her over bella or anything. i think that in a natural world, they would have had true love, which is rare enough in itself (they would be sort of a westley/buttercup sort of thing...if anyone gets that). but then fate shifted slightly, and jacob ended up being meant for the closest thing to bella - her daughter. i hope that made more sense.

liv-wa, cataclysm, so good to see you guys back!


Sorry you offended but even Bella refered to that first "Kiss" as an assault. My advice would be to calm down and go re read her reactions and recollection of them. She tells Jacob that just because he didn't mean to kiss her when she didn't want to. It doesn't change how she recalls it.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:21 am

look, i have known people who have been assaulted for real, and for all you know, i'm one of them. do not tell me to calm down about that, or anything for that matter. it IS NOT OK to apply that to a case of mixed signals. it is ignorant and offensive, and i feel that you were very wrong for doing that, and i feel that dismissing the fact that i am offended and telling me to calm down was uncalled for and condescending.

bella isn't the omnipotent decider of what is and is not assault. if she feels she was assaulted, fine, but you know what, we both know she wasn't. her father's the police chief for crying out loud. jacob told charlie, and he didn't find it to be assault. don't you think he would know?

but you're right about something - bella knows that he didn't mean to kiss her when she didn't want him to. so she knows that whatever she may have felt about it, she wasn't actually assaulted. her intelligent, rational side won out on that one, as it should have. what a person feels about something and what something is are not necessarily the same thing.

her reaction to it was one of someone who didn't want to be kissed, and it's fair for her not to want to be kissed. i would probably feel assaulted too, and there's nothing wrong with that. but that wouldn't make it assault, or an attack, and it's not fair to stick jacob with that label, as assault is an intent to cause damage to a person.

was that what jacob was doing? no, i didn't think so.

but on a different note, did you read what i said about the other stuff?
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby AgentCross » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:28 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:look, i have known people who have been assaulted for real, and for all you know, i'm one of them. do not tell me to calm down about that, or anything for that matter. it IS NOT OK to apply that to a case of mixed signals. it is ignorant and offensive, and i feel that you were very wrong for doing that, and i feel that dismissing the fact that i am offended and telling me to calm down was uncalled for and condescending.

bella isn't the omnipotent decider of what is and is not assault. if she feels she was assaulted, fine, but you know what, we both know she wasn't. her father's the police chief for crying out loud. jacob told charlie, and he didn't find it to be assault. don't you think he would know?

but you're right about something - bella knows that he didn't mean to kiss her when she didn't want him to. so she knows that whatever she may have felt about it, she wasn't actually assaulted. her intelligent, rational side won out on that one, as it should have. what a person feels about something and what something is are not necessarily the same thing.

her reaction to it was one of someone who didn't want to be kissed, and it's fair for her not to want to be kissed. i would probably feel assaulted too, and there's nothing wrong with that. but that wouldn't make it assault, or an attack, and it's not fair to stick jacob with that label, as assault is an intent to cause damage to a person.

was that what jacob was doing? no, i didn't think so.

but on a different note, did you read what i said about the other stuff?


Whoa, Im not gonna edit my speech or the books because your easily offended. It was an unwanted advance. I didn't mean he tried to physically hurt her. I also, didn't mean assault in it's darkest context. There are other definitions. Again, sorry if your offended. But Im fine with my statement and have no desire or intent to edit or recant it.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:43 am

i'm done with dealing with this here. this is a thread for discussion of jacob. i do wish, however, that you had been able to see where i was coming from instead of telling me i was wrong to be offended and condescending to me.

i've made what i think are some pretty intelligent points and if anyone would like to comment upon them i would be delighted to discuss them, or move to a new topic.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby AgentCross » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:45 am

Oh, I absolutely understand where you are coming from. I'm simply saying I don't agree and that I stand by my prior statements.
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Re: Jacob Black

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:53 am

dude, i just don't get it. i just don't understand why you wouldn't want to make sure you didn't offend someone on an issue that is so traumatic. and if you did, i don't understand why you wouldn't be a little, well, less rude?
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