Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Discussion of the Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn 1

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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby xx-topaz » Mon May 03, 2010 9:18 pm

hey hey hey!!! about the issue about imprinting. If you look at the official Eclipse movie website, for Quil's character profile it says,

"Tyson Houseman as Quil: He imprints on Emily's niece, Claire, who is wo-years old, which is considered somewhat scandalous but ultimately not upsetting because the nature of his love is note sexual, but spiritual; as Claire grows, he'll be a brother and a playmate, waiting for her to catch up to him"

So it looks like they are trying to keep the imprinting how it was written in the book. and hopefully explain it more in the movie :)
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby LionandLamb123 » Mon May 03, 2010 10:22 pm

GrayceM wrote:
Then in the first chapter of Jacob's section he's on the beach with Quil and Claire. The way he describes watching them together, you want that for yourself. It's not ugly or disgusting. It's pure, unconditional love. Hopefully, they have put this explaination into Eclipse for those who haven't read the books or are misunderstanding. If they haven't put it into Eclipse, maybe they will work it into Breaking Dawn somehow. It is an integral part of the story for Jacob to imprint on Renesmee. I'm almost sure that Stephanie had some say about whether that was explained and that she's read that some are worried or had people ask her about this and had to explain it herself, so hopefully she has told them how important it is to have it explained exactly right.



I agree ! Good point, I think they should take a direct quote from that and explain it in either Breaking Dawn or Eclipse. :)

xx-topaz wrote:I really hope that all of the new vampires are introduced and are actually in the movie. Taking away any of the new witness vampires would take away from the novel as a whole. What would the movie be without Garret!? ...or Zafrina?! ALL of the new vampires better be present, or else I will be very disappointed. Other than the characters, I just really hope they stick as true to the novel as possible.

With SM as the producer she'll have more control over what is kept and isn't right?

That includes, the imprinting, no battle scene, wedding, cottage, Bella practising with Kate...EVERYTHING.

Maybe with the imprinting they could make sure that it is mentioned that Jacob is Renesme's PROTECTOR, or something, I don't really find it pedophilic(sp?), but I'm sure other people who haven't read the books may be confused.


I know ! I really hope the whole thing about the visions with Zafrini are there and they aren't to corny and what not and that the practicing with Kate is there.


I hope they keep Alice and Jasper running away together in there too, and it's not like Alice and Jasper still there just helping them along the way. Also I hope Bella and her powers are included ! :D
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon May 03, 2010 11:21 pm

andypalmer wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:This is actually a reason why I would fully support a fuller love scene for that first night. In my opinion, it might help to counter the continued idiocy on the anti boards and even within the fandom about Edward being abusive to Bella. This is the second of two major pieces that they point to over and over and over and over ad nauseum to bolster that argument. A full love scene could show without argument the love and the devotion and the control that he shows during that whole night and counter every closeminded arsehat who's ever said that reason for the fade-to-black is because he does lose it and hurt her and she covers it up. I've accepted that, particularly with SM as a producer, that's probably not going to happen. But, it would be really nice to have.

I get that, from the perspective of quieting those who simply don't get it, but then how could you maintain Bella's confusion, her "blissed to pissed" in under 6 seconds? I'd rather they took the time in their second scene to show Edward making the extra effort, moving his hand from her arm to the headboard, for example than to even try to capture that first time. Afterall, no matter how well they tried to do it, there'd be far more complaints that the scene didn't do it justice than even the current cries of those who don't get what the combination of "1000 times stronger than a human" and "first time" will mean, even with the the best of intentions and the most superhuman of self-control.


But, I think that a fuller love scene would go along way towards communicating Bella's confusion. We see everything from her perspective. If all we see are tender moments filled with love and fulfillment followed the next morning by Edward's darkness and fear, who wouldn't be confused? It's easy enough to do, cinematically. You show those tender moments, but in doing so you show his hands around her arms, you show his hand holding her hip, those places where she bruises easily but is not likely to notice. I'm not saying show the entire night. A fade-to-black is essentially inevitable, as it happens in just about every PG13 movie. So, you come out of the FtB in a close up of Bella's face, her blissful expression, her joy, you focus tight on both of them during those few moments until he points out the bruises and she sees them for the first time. And, the audience is as confused as she is, remembering the image only of soft hands and love and joy on her face. I think it makes an even stronger impact in terms of Edward's fears. He was infinitely gentle, as gentle and controlled as he thought he could be and still he hurt her. That's the root of the conflict there. I think that makes his original resistance that much more understandable to him, but confusing to her; it demonstrates both sides. It also makes the progression, that 2nd time and then the subsequent ones, that much more impactful.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby SwanCullen » Mon May 03, 2010 11:50 pm

Caryn, you and I seem to be on the same wave lenntgh girl! You say everything i want to say, just better!
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby andypalmer » Tue May 04, 2010 7:27 am

Jazz Girl wrote:But, I think that a fuller love scene would go along way towards communicating Bella's confusion. We see everything from her perspective. If all we see are tender moments filled with love and fulfillment followed the next morning by Edward's darkness and fear, who wouldn't be confused? It's easy enough to do, cinematically. You show those tender moments, but in doing so you show his hands around her arms, you show his hand holding her hip, those places where she bruises easily but is not likely to notice. I'm not saying show the entire night. A fade-to-black is essentially inevitable, as it happens in just about every PG13 movie. So, you come out of the FtB in a close up of Bella's face, her blissful expression, her joy, you focus tight on both of them during those few moments until he points out the bruises and she sees them for the first time. And, the audience is as confused as she is, remembering the image only of soft hands and love and joy on her face. I think it makes an even stronger impact in terms of Edward's fears. He was infinitely gentle, as gentle and controlled as he thought he could be and still he hurt her. That's the root of the conflict there. I think that makes his original resistance that much more understandable to him, but confusing to her; it demonstrates both sides. It also makes the progression, that 2nd time and then the subsequent ones, that much more impactful.


You aren't going to be able to show the high points in passion that caused the bruising without pushing the edge sufficiently that, even if you can keep the PG-13 rating, many parents of tweens and young teens will keep their children home. Remember, the "foreplay" starts in the ocean/on the beach. By the time they make it back into the bedroom from skinny dipping together, things will be passed the point of "tender moments" - think Bella during their first kiss but with Edward just as passionate. Their second time is also easier to film more of because they start the "scene" clothed and also begins with Edward focused so much on control (i.e., overall it'll be less steamy and therefore more palatable for parents).
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby bored by the sea » Tue May 04, 2010 3:32 pm

im totally only just joining in on this topic i only just realised its here :lol: alls im going to say is that i am worried my best twi-bud and i have been having mass discussions about our worries and they are all pretty much the same as what all of you guys have said- the honeymoon, the imprinting (although surely david slades had to include that in eclipse) the communication between the wolves, the end when the Volturi come (i don't want them to make it into a massive battle) gah and soo much more :lol: , i'm scared, but like all of you i really hope that it is kept faithful to the book (really wish mellissa rosenburg wasn't doing the screenplay, i hope stephenie can keep her in line :lol: ). i'm also kind of worried about the director they've announced but i really need to go and check out some more of his other works before i can really pass judgement on that.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue May 04, 2010 3:47 pm

andypalmer wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:But, I think that a fuller love scene would go along way towards communicating Bella's confusion. We see everything from her perspective. If all we see are tender moments filled with love and fulfillment followed the next morning by Edward's darkness and fear, who wouldn't be confused? It's easy enough to do, cinematically. You show those tender moments, but in doing so you show his hands around her arms, you show his hand holding her hip, those places where she bruises easily but is not likely to notice. I'm not saying show the entire night. A fade-to-black is essentially inevitable, as it happens in just about every PG13 movie. So, you come out of the FtB in a close up of Bella's face, her blissful expression, her joy, you focus tight on both of them during those few moments until he points out the bruises and she sees them for the first time. And, the audience is as confused as she is, remembering the image only of soft hands and love and joy on her face. I think it makes an even stronger impact in terms of Edward's fears. He was infinitely gentle, as gentle and controlled as he thought he could be and still he hurt her. That's the root of the conflict there. I think that makes his original resistance that much more understandable to him, but confusing to her; it demonstrates both sides. It also makes the progression, that 2nd time and then the subsequent ones, that much more impactful.


You aren't going to be able to show the high points in passion that caused the bruising without pushing the edge sufficiently that, even if you can keep the PG-13 rating, many parents of tweens and young teens will keep their children home. Remember, the "foreplay" starts in the ocean/on the beach. By the time they make it back into the bedroom from skinny dipping together, things will be passed the point of "tender moments" - think Bella during their first kiss but with Edward just as passionate. Their second time is also easier to film more of because they start the "scene" clothed and also begins with Edward focused so much on control (i.e., overall it'll be less steamy and therefore more palatable for parents).


And here's where the misunderstanding comes in for so many people. The bruises didn't just result from those "high points in passion". They result from the entire act. Edward grasping Bella around her ribs as he carried her from the ocean, Bella pulling Edward closer to her as they kiss causing her hip to collide with his, Edward holding Bella's arms in trying to adjust their positions... there are an endless number of situations both before and after those "high points" when the bruising likely occured. That's the entire point. Bella's soft human body bruises easily as it is and Edward's body is like stone. Repeated contact, even the gentlest contact can and does cause bruising. That's what Bella tries to explain that first morning. He never did lose control, was never anything but gentle and soft with her. As for once things moved back to the beachouse, my belief is that Edward was only ever tender and loving with her, regardless of his passion. Those are the scenes that I think it is most important to show. And there are plenty of ways to show those scenes in ways that satisfy THE ENTIRE audience for the film.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby andypalmer » Tue May 04, 2010 4:01 pm

Jazz Girl. I don't have the exact quote handy, but Vampires have enough control to hold bubbles within their fingers. Bella also remembers some pain in the grasping, though not enough that she minded. This combination gives me a completely different impression of what happened - not the Edward abused her, but in experiencing feelings/emotion he had never "set free" before, his control was only 99% as good as normal, resulting in using a fraction more force than he intended, resulting in some bruising and sore muscles in Bella. It is this loss of perfect control that Edward had feared since Twilight and which, in his mind, came to pass. In human terms, it was perhaps a bit on the vigorous side of things, but hardly abusive; still a distinction that Edward is unable to come to grips with (he expects perfection from himself).
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Jazz Girl » Wed May 05, 2010 2:36 am

AP~ I'm looking for perpsective, not perfection. Believe me, the obsessive number of times I have read The Saga lends to perfect clarity on the reality of the dynamics of what happened. My point is that that there were other moments other than just their climax that could have lead to the bruising and it would be possible to show those in an appropriate way, thus lending context to both Bella's and Edward's feelings and reactions.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby andypalmer » Wed May 05, 2010 3:33 am

JG ~ I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If everyone knows it wasn't the tender moments that caused the bruising, I don't see the benefit of showing them, rather than just fading to black as the book does. Those who misunderstand Edward motives and feelings aren't going to be convinced by the obvious omission while neophytes to the story will just be confused by the incomplete depiction in light of the morning discoveries.

Perhaps they could film the scene but only show it through very brief flashbacks as Bella is examining her bruises the next morning. If done well, that could portray the passion without being too risqué. In my mind, that would be perhaps worth the risk, rather than a disingenuous attempt to portray tenderness as the cause for both Bella's bruising and Edward's self-loathing. We, after all, aren't the only ones who have absorbed the saga through excessive readings :-)
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