Worried about Eclipse?

Discussion of The Twilight Saga: Eclipse

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Re: Worried about Eclipse?

Postby MiVidaLoca » Sat May 22, 2010 12:05 am

See my husband is romantic, and way to mushy and affectionate for me, yet protective and good looking, (to good looking for his own good, like he has a pretty big ego) but he sucks at being able to talk to and seriously lacks in the humor and sarcasm dept. Which are my biggest "skills" LOL
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Re: Worried about Eclipse?

Postby pennybug84 » Sat May 22, 2010 6:16 am

Jazz Girl wrote: Regardless, I am anxious to see how it is portrayed in the film, how they handle it. For me, the biggest disappointment was Jacob's attitude. In the book, he's cocky, arrogant about it, he shows no regret or remorse, completely demonstrating how manipulative he is. But, in the film, it looks as though he feels bad about it. Once again, Summit's agenda and MR's preferences clearly pushing through the written material.


Oh man!! You're right!!! That is one thing I was worried about w/the movie. They need to protray Jacob in the same way as he is in the book so those who have not read the books (like my mom) can understand why some of us really don't like Jacob. My mom doesn't understand why I really don't like Jacob & my response to her is well you have't read the third book to know what he does/happens that makes me really not like him. (And from the one clip I can't remember if it was Oprah or what where they show Edward dropping Bella off at the treaty line so I'm thinking they're probably going to show his protective side. And in TW they did show him sneaking into her bedroom even though they didn't explain it all the way, mainly about him liking to watch her sleep because she talks in her sleep & says his name.)
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Re: Worried about Eclipse?

Postby bored by the sea » Sat May 22, 2010 4:24 pm

pennybug84 wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote: Regardless, I am anxious to see how it is portrayed in the film, how they handle it. For me, the biggest disappointment was Jacob's attitude. In the book, he's cocky, arrogant about it, he shows no regret or remorse, completely demonstrating how manipulative he is. But, in the film, it looks as though he feels bad about it. Once again, Summit's agenda and MR's preferences clearly pushing through the written material.


Oh man!! You're right!!! That is one thing I was worried about w/the movie. They need to protray Jacob in the same way as he is in the book so those who have not read the books (like my mom) can understand why some of us really don't like Jacob. My mom doesn't understand why I really don't like Jacob & my response to her is well you have't read the third book to know what he does/happens that makes me really not like him. (And from the one clip I can't remember if it was Oprah or what where they show Edward dropping Bella off at the treaty line so I'm thinking they're probably going to show his protective side. And in TW they did show him sneaking into her bedroom even though they didn't explain it all the way, mainly about him liking to watch her sleep because she talks in her sleep & says his name.)


YES!! i have exactly the same problem, a few of my friends just can't be bothered to read the books (even though ive been rambling on about them for years! :lol: ) and they don't see/ get why i hate jacob!! its true he is portrayed in an entirely different way to how he is in the book, he is ALOT less arrogant and cocky, i had a discussion with my mate about it and we decided its because of Taylor and his personality, well his personality as it comes across in interviews i mean he's just not like that, an also as caryn said summit with their agendas.
all i'll say is that i disliked Jacob pretty much the whole way through reading the books, him kissing Bella against her will and him emotionally bribing Bella into kissing him are what tipped me over the edge :lol: and when i'm watching the films i find film jacob a little less irritating that actual Jacob and that annoys me :x :lol:
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Re: Worried about Eclipse?

Postby Jazz Girl » Sat May 22, 2010 11:47 pm

MVL~ Oh, no worries. I completely see where Edward's behavior certainly can be suspect. But, in my opinion, it goes back to the fact that, having read the book, I know the motivations behind both Edward's and Jacob's actions. Edward's only motivations ever in everything he did were to protect Bella. Even going into her room and watching her sleep was a form of protection. In Twilight, he says that he sneaks into her room to listen to her talk in her sleep, because she fascinates him. But, in MS, we find out a little more. Edward didn't lie to her about that, but nor was he completely honest at first. His first trip to her room was in trying to confirm for the family, and specifically Rose and Jasper who were okay with killing her to prevent a threat to the family, that she hadn't said anything and didn't suspect anything. Once he entered her room and she said his name, he found a new purpose in the nighttime visits. It was his way of desensitizing himself to her scent, to keep it from overwhelming him. He was trying to protect her from himself.

Jacob's motivations are a little more straightforward. He wants Bella and he's bound and determined to convince her she wants him too, that she might love him. How one interprets that motivation is, according to some, up for debate. I say (as do many others) he's being a manipulative, selfish pain in the backside who doesn't accept no for an answer. Some say he's trying to save Bella's life. I vehemently disagree. But, everyone is welcome to their opinion.

Ultimately, what we see here is where the original failure of Melissa Rosenberg started. Melissa left out a lot of important detail, like Edward explaining about Bella talking in her sleep, or his downright terror at the idea of hurting Bella, or the true nature of the risk he poses, or any explanation of why Edward might be SO protective of Bella ie the heightened vampire emotions and reactions. And, that is a failure that has continued through the films. What we end up with is the reason why many people are, in fact, so worried about Eclipse. MR very clearly has a preference and the way that she has portrayed both Edward and Jacob shows it quite clearly. The major problem comes in when, in the end, the ultimate "choice" is already made, but the events don't lead up to it. We know Edward is a loving, caring, wonderful guy who only wants Bella to be happy and safe. Whether or not that translates and people who haven't read what we have and don't know what we do will figure that out. OR, will they just decry this movie as idealizing and romantisizing controlling relationships. I guess that's what we're all waiting to find out.
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Re: Worried about Eclipse?

Postby marielle » Sun May 23, 2010 3:56 am

Jazz Girl wrote:Ultimately, what we see here is where the original failure of Melissa Rosenberg started. Melissa left out a lot of important detail, like Edward explaining about Bella talking in her sleep, or his downright terror at the idea of hurting Bella, or the true nature of the risk he poses, or any explanation of why Edward might be SO protective of Bella ie the heightened vampire emotions and reactions.

Caryn, I so agree on that part....the whole plot of the story is jeapordized by her failure...
and not only is she leaving out all the plots in the story (besides from Jake's story) she had left out all the funny bits that show how much Edward really cares about Bella, like bloodtyping, playing with her memory... and the most important bit of new moon, the explanation of why he left in the first place....

From what I have seen from ecplise so far looks promissing, I think they got all the important bits, but I wonder if they got the special (very much fan appreciated) bits, like Alice kidnapping Bella and then Edward coming home, or the nights Edward spends at her place, or the conversation on the phone after she breaks her hand....

Jazz Girl wrote:acob's motivations are a little more straightforward. He wants Bella and he's bound and determined to convince her she wants him too, that she might love him. How one interprets that motivation is, according to some, up for debate.

What I find strange is that people are all so discusive about Edward being manipulative...but like you point out in these two lines... it is really Jacob who tries to manipulate the whole thing.....

MiVidaLoca wrote:I just think if people are going to point out the not OK, stuff Jacob has done, it's only fair to acknowledge the stuff Edward does as well

Well I can argue differently.....
Jacob's behavior to Bella, isn't that innocent... he she's her as a girl the way teenage boys sees girls...yes they can love them and yes they can be good for them, but Jacob's thoughts were already by the point of making a family with her, I think from Edward reactions to him we can fairly say that Jacob was imagining thing he could do with Bella that were not so innocent....
I wonder if he had ever thought of marrying her first before acting like that...

Edward on the other hand was being protective, yes I agree to a certain extend to much...his fear of loosing her clouded his judgement of what it a bridge to far....but he got angry with every boy who had inappropriate thoughts about her.... he would never do anything not so innocent to her before marrying her... (I like his old fashion style)

Isn't it better that young girls learn to wait until they get married that go with the boy who is already thinking of doing such a things...
(maybe this discussion is to be taken sowhere else)
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Re: Worried about Eclipse?

Postby MiVidaLoca » Sun May 23, 2010 4:06 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:MVL~ Oh, no worries. I completely see where Edward's behavior certainly can be suspect. But, in my opinion, it goes back to the fact that, having read the book, I know the motivations behind both Edward's and Jacob's actions. Edward's only motivations ever in everything he did were to protect Bella. Even going into her room and watching her sleep was a form of protection. In Twilight, he says that he sneaks into her room to listen to her talk in her sleep, because she fascinates him. But, in MS, we find out a little more. Edward didn't lie to her about that, but nor was he completely honest at first. His first trip to her room was in trying to confirm for the family, and specifically Rose and Jasper who were okay with killing her to prevent a threat to the family, that she hadn't said anything and didn't suspect anything. Once he entered her room and she said his name, he found a new purpose in the nighttime visits. It was his way of desensitizing himself to her scent, to keep it from overwhelming him. He was trying to protect her from himself.

Jacob's motivations are a little more straightforward. He wants Bella and he's bound and determined to convince her she wants him too, that she might love him. How one interprets that motivation is, according to some, up for debate. I say (as do many others) he's being a manipulative, selfish pain in the backside who doesn't accept no for an answer. Some say he's trying to save Bella's life. I vehemently disagree. But, everyone is welcome to their opinion.

Ultimately, what we see here is where the original failure of Melissa Rosenberg started. Melissa left out a lot of important detail, like Edward explaining about Bella talking in her sleep, or his downright terror at the idea of hurting Bella, or the true nature of the risk he poses, or any explanation of why Edward might be SO protective of Bella ie the heightened vampire emotions and reactions. And, that is a failure that has continued through the films. What we end up with is the reason why many people are, in fact, so worried about Eclipse. MR very clearly has a preference and the way that she has portrayed both Edward and Jacob shows it quite clearly. The major problem comes in when, in the end, the ultimate "choice" is already made, but the events don't lead up to it. We know Edward is a loving, caring, wonderful guy who only wants Bella to be happy and safe. Whether or not that translates and people who haven't read what we have and don't know what we do will figure that out. OR, will they just decry this movie as idealizing and romantisizing controlling relationships. I guess that's what we're all waiting to find out.



It's all about perception. I too have read the books, I have read the entire series 8 times in the past year, (never read them until last June) I just started reading them again.

I could justify BOTH of their behavior and I can not justify both of their behavior. They are very different characters. Having a teenage son myself, well having 3 sons but one is teenage and one is almost teen. I totally get Jacobs behaviour and personality. He is acting like a typical teen boy. SM has said that herself.

From what I have seen on this board, it seems like in the general consensus is you have to only like Edward and dislike Jacob. I don't understand that at all. I like them both, I think they both have flaws and they both have great qualities. I am glad Edward and Bella ended up together. I really like Edward. I am glad Jacob found his happiness as well. As I really like his character also.

I do not feel the movies have portrayed Jacob in a better light than Edward. I saw the first Twilight movie before reading the book. I didn't get the hype at all. I saw it when it came out on DVD. I finally caved and read the books, the biggest thing I disliked about the first movie besides all that was left out and added nonsense that didn't need to be in there, I didn't feel they pinned the deep connection between Edward and Bella. When I watched the movie, it seemed like a little school girl crush. When I read the book, it was much different, the emotions I could feel. When I read MS it really gave me a better sense of Edward and who he is. Jacob was hardly a presence in the first movie.

Jacob was shown in such a good light in the second movie because he was in the book. Bella wouldn't have made it through without Jacob. I thought the movie followed the book, I thought it showed the characters fairly in regards to Edward and Jacob. If anything I think the movies don't give enough Justice to Bella. I think her personality is stronger in the books, I think in both movies they really took away a lot of her character from the book. I see where people keep saying MR favors Jacob and I just don't get it. Now I guess after Eclipse I will be able to see more if I agree or even BD. But Twilight was all about Edward, as it should have been, and NM was mainly about Jacob, as it should have been by going off the books. Eclipse was about both of them pretty dang equally so it will be easier to see if one is favored over the other that shouldn't have been.

Eclipse was my favorite book, so far to me the previews look great. I don't like how they changed one of the scenes around for the confrontation of the kiss. But overall I am eager to see it.


I think it's hard to have an unbiased opinion when their is an obvious biased. It's human nature to make excuses for the things you agree with and be quick to condemn things coming from things you don't like, even if the same arguments can be made. This is seen throughout all kinds of debates.

I see on this forum a lot of people are "Team Edward", ok that's great, I like him to. But it seems to get to the point that nothing can be looked at rationally. People with differing opinions are shot down quickly, excuses for anything Edward is done and Jacob is burned at the stake. (ok so not quite that dramatic.) Again, I get why people do this, it's part of who we are.
There are things that I have gone through in life and things I have done, that I have an easier time looking at things rationally from all angles. I have been told this. Even if I am pro immigration (just to put an example out there), I can still put myself on the other side and find good things that I can understand and support on that side. Or understand why they feel like they do.

In fact, I myself was "Team Edward" well, I still am. I have never felt the need to defend Jacob until I have read a lot of things here. That is when I stop to think, Ok now, to be fair consider this.

This isn't a put down on any one person or any group of people. Just things I have noticed. At the end of the day I still love this series, I am still happy with the ending, I am still happy with who ended up with who. I just don't feel like because I favor one character, I have to dislike the other. If that makes sense.


Sorry for rambling on.
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Re: Worried about Eclipse?

Postby Total Twilight Fan » Sun May 23, 2010 4:12 pm

I have to now say that after seeing the new Eclipse boardgame cards and Jasper and Maria that I have faith that my favorite scene will be amazing. I was worried that maybe they would not get it right, but they made Newborn!Jasper look- like a Dorian Gray look, wild and ruffled.
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Re: Worried about Eclipse?

Postby MiVidaLoca » Sun May 23, 2010 4:20 pm

marielle wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:Ultimately, what we see here is where the original failure of Melissa Rosenberg started. Melissa left out a lot of important detail, like Edward explaining about Bella talking in her sleep, or his downright terror at the idea of hurting Bella, or the true nature of the risk he poses, or any explanation of why Edward might be SO protective of Bella ie the heightened vampire emotions and reactions.

Caryn, I so agree on that part....the whole plot of the story is jeapordized by her failure...
and not only is she leaving out all the plots in the story (besides from Jake's story) she had left out all the funny bits that show how much Edward really cares about Bella, like bloodtyping, playing with her memory... and the most important bit of new moon, the explanation of why he left in the first place....

From what I have seen from ecplise so far looks promissing, I think they got all the important bits, but I wonder if they got the special (very much fan appreciated) bits, like Alice kidnapping Bella and then Edward coming home, or the nights Edward spends at her place, or the conversation on the phone after she breaks her hand....

Jazz Girl wrote:acob's motivations are a little more straightforward. He wants Bella and he's bound and determined to convince her she wants him too, that she might love him. How one interprets that motivation is, according to some, up for debate.

What I find strange is that people are all so discusive about Edward being manipulative...but like you point out in these two lines... it is really Jacob who tries to manipulate the whole thing.....

MiVidaLoca wrote:I just think if people are going to point out the not OK, stuff Jacob has done, it's only fair to acknowledge the stuff Edward does as well

Well I can argue differently.....
Jacob's behavior to Bella, isn't that innocent... he she's her as a girl the way teenage boys sees girls...yes they can love them and yes they can be good for them, but Jacob's thoughts were already by the point of making a family with her, I think from Edward reactions to him we can fairly say that Jacob was imagining thing he could do with Bella that were not so innocent....
I wonder if he had ever thought of marrying her first before acting like that...

Edward on the other hand was being protective, yes I agree to a certain extend to much...his fear of loosing her clouded his judgement of what it a bridge to far....but he got angry with every boy who had inappropriate thoughts about her.... he would never do anything not so innocent to her before marrying her... (I like his old fashion style)

Isn't it better that young girls learn to wait until they get married that go with the boy who is already thinking of doing such a things...
(maybe this discussion is to be taken sowhere else)



I do agree that a lot was left out of the first movie, I just stated in my previous post that I don't feel it captured the deep emotions like it could have. I was very disappointed in a lot of the scenes left out, like the blood typing scene.

That said, I don't think the first movie was Team Jacob. I don't think there was any favoritism shown towards Jacob in the first movie over Edward. Jacob hardly had a roll in the movie.

I enjoy Edwards old fashion style as well. But because Edward is 100+ years old and grew up in a different time, doesn't mean that Jacob is inappropriate. Jacob is acting like majority of teenage boys in this century. I never got the feeling that Jacob was having all these inappropriate thoughts about Bella. Mike yes. But again, what's inappropriate really. Edward even told Bella that he was "still a man" when she asked basically if he gets aroused by her. Just because Edward wants to wait for marriage, doesn't mean he doesn't ever have thoughts.

Like I have said, they both have bad qualities and great qualities and if I had to formulate a perfect person I would want for my daughter, I would take qualities from both of them.

At the end of the day, everyone is going to have their own perception of how the read the book and what they took from it. It doesn't make their opinion right or wrong. Sort of like the whole, 10 people can see the same accident and can all have different versions of what happens. Doesn't make any of them right or wrong.
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Re: Worried about Eclipse?

Postby Jazz Girl » Sun May 23, 2010 7:17 pm

MVL~ I suppose I should apologize. I sometimes forget that I should always preface my posts by stating, "in my opinion". There are many out there who are Team Switzerland and who are Team Jacob. Everyone has there preference and it all boils down to personal feeling, and the fandom just wouldn't be the same without all of us. But, if there's one thing that will always be a topic of discussion where The Saga is concerned, it is Edward & Jacob. That's just the way it was written. It was a very passionate and vocal debate about that very subject that led me to the series in the first place. The movies, their adaptation from the source material, has only served to enhance that debate specifically because Summit has gone out of their way to ramp up the love triangle aspect.

Certainly, Twilight can't really be percieved as favoring Jacob. He's in it for all of 5 minutes, if that. And, they even went so far as to cut out Jacob's lines where he makes the subtle hint to Bella that he has feelings for her. In New Moon, though, the subtle adjustments to lines and attitudes start to appear. But, in the end, what I am basing my opinion on is what we've seen and know of the Eclipse script. Again, your point is completely right. It all depends on how you interpret motives in the novels, whether or not it's a change in the films.

But, it's my opinion that the scriptwriting/adaptation has begun to skew the characterizations and actions of both Edward & Jacob. The confrontation scene is a perfect example that we can work off of. In the novel, Edward is, it could be termed as, deadly calm. He doesn't loose his head. He remains calm, even pointing out to Bella that she woudl be angry with him if he hurt Jacob. Bella is beyond pissed about the whole thing, telling Jacob that she hopes Edward will lose his temper and hurt him. And Jacob is blatantly unapologetic and even bragging about how much Bella will be thinking about that kiss. He even taunts her with her own reaction.

That's not at all what we see in the movie. Edward is the one who's in a temper, pissed because Jacob crossed the line. Bella is trying to play peacemaker. And, Jacob seems cowed and to at least have some regret for what he did. The differences are subtle. But, they are there. And, the pictures they paint of the characters and their relationships are vastly different. Of course, if you read the source material and don't find anythign too upsetting, I can see how one might not reach the same conclusion. But, in my eyes, once the word no comes out of a persons mouth, thats the end of it and there is no debate. ANYTHING that happens afterwards is wrong. Period. So, the change in attitudes changes the whole emotional feel of what happens and the reactions of the characters in relation to what happens.

Granted, much of the reaction and opinion out there is based on conjecture and assumption, piecing together things that we've seen from different sources. It could all turn out to be a moot point once June 30th rolls around. But, until then, worry about the film adaptation, the characters and their translations, the music, the action scenes and the love scens, will abound.
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Re: Worried about Eclipse?

Postby MiVidaLoca » Sun May 23, 2010 7:42 pm

No need to apologize, I rather enjoy these types of discussions and appreciate when someone can "debate" without resorting to insults and so on. It's not often it happens especially on things that people are passionate. I must hand it to SM these books certainly evoke a lot of passion in people, (myself included).

It will be interesting to see how Eclipse turns out. I have my midnight showing tickets, (first one I will be going to the midnight showing just because of it being my favorite book) LOL.

I still think the biggest character change was Bella I think that contributed a lot to the confrontation scene as well. I definitely like the book version on Bella better, I felt her character just had so much more depth that they didn't give her in the movies thus far. After seeing that scene though it has me worried if more of my other favorite scenes might be completely changed.

Wanted to add, much like MS gave me a different view of Edward, I think SM little snippet on what it's like to be Jacob Black gave me a better sense as to who he was as well.
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