Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

A discussion of the novella The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner

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Re: Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

Postby AyaDiefair » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:01 pm

ringswraith wrote:
Edward (indeed, any of them) don't know Fred. They approached vampires they've met throughout the years, vampires they trust to hear them out- it's highly unlikely they'd approach someone they've never met and ask of them such a favor.


I dunno about that entirely. Sure they may have known the vampires they seeked out, but not terribly well I'm sure with all of them. They didn't know the half breed or his Aunt that came back with Alice, I think it could've still been a possibility they might have. I am sure his Aunt was a vampire they have never met. If Edward himself searched Fred out, even though they have never met, maybe explaining what happened to Bree would've made him come...but then again, it is a good possibility you are right on this one. lol I have a bad habit of reading to deep into things.

misspikaboo wrote:He does seem the type to be out on his own, but I'd worry for him if that was the case. Although he seems the type to be careful, he does not know the Volturi's rules. Granted, there aren't that many and the few that do exist are fairly basic - keep the secret, remain inconspicuous - but it's dangerous to go into a world like there's not knowing the full picture. One slip up, one mistake, and it could be all over for Fred. The Volturi don't give second chances and ignorance of the law is not a good excuse in their eyes.

On a side note, did it ever feel like Fred might have had feelings for Bree? I mean, he wanted him (and Diego) to join him if they managed to survive. And he lifted his power around her and protected her (and Diego again) from Raoul's wrath in the hideout. Yes, Diego was there in the equation, too, but Fred didn't know Diego so he might as well have been doing it all for Bree. I dunno, it just seems like it's sort of important: Fred's power allows him to keep everyone away, so we know he is a bit anti-social; but despite this, he lets Bree get close to him, looks out for her, and even seems to enjoy her company. That he was willing to lift his power from around her speaks volumes, I think, as his power is his main source of protection. It reminds me of Bella lifting her shield so that Edward might finally read her mind - there's something intimate about it, about bearing yourself to someone else even when you has the means to keep them away.


You know, that hadn't even crossed my mind in the least. Bree did notice that Fred read the books she left him, which I thought was a very kind gesture to know that he wasn't completely ignoring her. He invited her to join him and wait for her for 24 hours to go with him to wherever in the world instead of just taking off right then and there. Maybe he did? It was just really settle compared to Diego's actions. Fred seems very reserved and little hints like that could've been ways he was showing it.

And I agree, entering the Vampire world without knowing there is the Vampire police keeping rules enforced probably will end Fred's adventures early, but if he was heading to Canada, maybe there is a chance he stumbled on the Denali covern (I think that's the name, gosh I need to reread the books so bad lol) and they could've shown him the ropes and give him a heads up or something. Well, let us hope that Fred is smart enough to not roam around in a crowd with the blazing sun beating down on him.
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Re: Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

Postby misspikaboo » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:35 pm

AyaDiefair wrote:And I agree, entering the Vampire world without knowing there is the Vampire police keeping rules enforced probably will end Fred's adventures early, but if he was heading to Canada, maybe there is a chance he stumbled on the Denali covern (I think that's the name, gosh I need to reread the books so bad lol) and they could've shown him the ropes and give him a heads up or something. Well, let us hope that Fred is smart enough to not roam around in a crowd with the blazing sun beating down on him.


Lol. An interesting picture, shiny Fred strutting down the streets of Toronto, but yeah, I don't think he's a dummy. :D

I doubt he'd see much the Denali sisters, though. Alaska is a far cry from Canada; the same way I doubt the Cullens would stray too far from Washington State, I doubt the girls would leave their humble forest too much. But there are nomads to consider. Canada is not nearly as populated as the US, had much more acceptable weather for a vampire, and plenty of open terrain. I imagine it would be a wonderful land for plenty of nomadic vampires to trek across. And as we've seen with the case of James' coven, vampires can easily track other vampires based on scent alone, so Fred is sure to run into some of his kind eventually. The question is, what will happen when they eventually cross paths? [insert dramatic background music]
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Re: Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

Postby ringswraith » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:57 pm

AyaDiefair wrote:I dunno about that entirely. Sure they may have known the vampires they seeked out, but not terribly well I'm sure with all of them. They didn't know the half breed or his Aunt that came back with Alice, I think it could've still been a possibility they might have. I am sure his Aunt was a vampire they have never met. If Edward himself searched Fred out, even though they have never met, maybe explaining what happened to Bree would've made him come...but then again, it is a good possibility you are right on this one. lol I have a bad habit of reading to deep into things.


Nahuel and his aunt don't count- they weren't approached by the Cullens to witness like everyone else. Alice specifically sought to find an existing hybrid- something they didn't even know existed other than in legends- to bring back not to bear witness that Renesmee is not an immortal child, but to show that he himself is a hybrid that has lived for a long time.

And one can't assume that they didn't know the other vampires well. Carlisle has been around for what, 300 years approximately? That's more than enough time to make a lot of friends. (And that's just him- I'm sure the others know their share of vampires.)

Lastly, why should Fred trust anything Edward would have to say? After all the last vampire-in-charge he knew was feeding them a bunch of lies. Not to mention it could result in Fred's destruction if things went bad.
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Re: Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

Postby dreamony » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:36 pm

But Edward did not go out seeking witnesses, he stayed behind with his family.
I also had a thought that conceivably Edward is the only one with any possibility (besides Alice but she was busy searching for a hybrid) of finding Fred. Edward would be able to hear Fred's thoughts even while being repelled by Fred's ability, whereas the others would only have been repelled.

But back to the topic:
I am not sure where it was but I believe that SM explained the vampire world was profuse with gifts because vampires tended to change only the most promising of humans. Therefore Victoria and Riley's blind attempts with the drudge of humanity would not result in a overabundance of gifts.
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Re: Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

Postby AyaDiefair » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:38 am

dreamony wrote:But Edward did not go out seeking witnesses, he stayed behind with his family.
I also had a thought that conceivably Edward is the only one with any possibility (besides Alice but she was busy searching for a hybrid) of finding Fred. Edward would be able to hear Fred's thoughts even while being repelled by Fred's ability, whereas the others would only have been repelled.

But back to the topic:
I am not sure where it was but I believe that SM explained the vampire world was profuse with gifts because vampires tended to change only the most promising of humans. Therefore Victoria and Riley's blind attempts with the drudge of humanity would not result in a overabundance of gifts.


Aye, it was just a thought that maybe Fred would've been sought out, but the more I think about it the less it would've been realistic.

I think Steph did mention that, but, she said for example, that the Cullens all had their own gifts, they just weren't as advanced as Edwards or Alices. Rosalie is very pretty, Emmett is strong for being an older vampire, Esme and her caring motherly instinct, and Carlisle with his ability to help people and be able to practically ignore all the blood he is around. So, I think most, if not all, of her vampires are gifted, just some are less noticeable.
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Re: Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

Postby misspikaboo » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:47 pm

dreamony wrote:But back to the topic:
I am not sure where it was but I believe that SM explained the vampire world was profuse with gifts because vampires tended to change only the most promising of humans. Therefore Victoria and Riley's blind attempts with the drudge of humanity would not result in a overabundance of gifts.


I can see that. I guess it goes back to my original theory about them being the "dregs" and thus untalented. But I think that they all must have had some special quality about them because how would they have survived that madhouse? I think each of them had a keen instinct to live which gave them the ability to survive each day walled in with other blood-thirsty newborns. And the ones who died lacked it.
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Re: Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

Postby ringswraith » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:29 pm

It's just predatory instinct- kill to live, know when to run or press your advantage in a fight. Not exactly a special quality unique to each vampire.
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Re: Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

Postby misspikaboo » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:50 pm

But you don't think it takes something special to survive there? It's already been established that in-coven fighting is pretty normal and that's why most nomads travel only in pairs, but these are wild newborns who are trapped for 12 hours in a house together. They are ruled by fear and aggression - but you think it's still a cakewalk for them to survive x amounts of months? Not likely. I'm surprised even 20 of them managed to stay alive long enough to travel to Forks.
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Re: Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

Postby dandyvampgirl_13 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:46 pm

That's how all newborn covens have been, back in the wars. The survival instinct is strong, that's why we still have a "Fight or Flight" instinct after millenia of domestication. The newborns are smart enough to not get killed or kill a lot of others, then get killed. Its like a pack of velociraptors vs a lone velociraptor. One is still dangerous, but a pack of them is deadly, making hunting that much easier. They'd recognize that advantage. The few vampire powers they had, plus their fear of Riley's retribution if too many of them died, kept them together. That's about as many motivators as they could possibly need.
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Re: Vampire Gifts - and Their Scarcity in Bree Tanner

Postby ringswraith » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:55 pm

misspikaboo wrote:But you don't think it takes something special to survive there? It's already been established that in-coven fighting is pretty normal and that's why most nomads travel only in pairs, but these are wild newborns who are trapped for 12 hours in a house together. They are ruled by fear and aggression - but you think it's still a cakewalk for them to survive x amounts of months? Not likely. I'm surprised even 20 of them managed to stay alive long enough to travel to Forks.


I'm not saying it's a cakewalk. I'm saying you don't need gifts over and beyond normal vampire abilities in order to survive, even in that situation.

(And lest we forget, they are special. They're vampires. They're supernaturally strong, fast, and all. That's more than enough to make them special. But for purposes of this discussion, I'm going with the definition meaning they have gifts such as Edward's telepathy.)

Take a look at all the vampires we know that survived this situation, who aren't gifted with extra powers. Bree. Diego (until his unfortunate destruction). The rest of the newborns who made it to Forks (until the battle). Or let's go even further back- Peter and Charlotte. Survival is definitely possible sans gifts.
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