Twilight under the Sorting Hat

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Re: Twilight under the Sorting Hat

Postby ringswraith » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:37 pm

Well I was in the middle of composing a reply late last night/early morning but that got sidetracked by this awesome game involving "werewolves" (and I use the term very loosely).

So, to wit.

I'm still not convinced about the whole "diet" issue showing courage. Perhaps in the beginning, when they were learning to resist human blood, a case could be made for that. But when we meet the Cullens, they are all (with perhaps the possible exception of Jasper) rather used to their way of life. Even in that book Edward mentions that the instinctual reaction remains present, but he's learned to dull it. At this point I can no longer call it an act of courage or sacrifice. It becomes a sort of habit- one you do without much thought, the constant repetition conditioning yourself for or against whatever it is you need. It's like someone so used to eating red meat trying to learn to eat salad instead; the initial transition period is fraught with temptation and steeling yourself against it, but eventually you're able to skip over that juicy steak and opt for the taco salad without much of an afterthought. It becomes normal for you to eat salads.

The fact that the younger Cullens are actually in high school also kills the whole "resisting human blood is so hard" sentiment. In fact the only time we really see it mentioned is during the blood typing incident- and in that book Alice casually reminds Edward about the experiment that day. It's not even a "so the whole class is pricking their fingers- might want to stay away from school" moment. It's just a "might want to skip that class" moment. Certainly doesn't give any import to how difficult it's supposed to be to resist blood. (And before we go there, Edward's comment about smelling Mike's blood actually helps with my point of view, since he puts the scent away so easily- disdainfully, even.)

I guess I'll never really see this aspect of their unlives as others do. If that book ever comes out, who knows- maybe it will convince us one way or the other.
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Re: Twilight under the Sorting Hat

Postby corona » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:05 pm

I would agree that it would definitely take more courage in the beginning, especially since their only experience is thirst and they would only be able to hope and trust in Carlisle’s assurances that things would get better. The “thirst” thing in general, though, is always going to be a different issue than Edward’s reaction to Bella, which never really abates.

Your point is well taken in that the quenched thirst of the vampires in general is…not that bad once they get used to it? At least as long as they feed regularly? We know that there are stages that get progressively worse between feedings, and that it can get to the point where it literally feels like fire in their throat, but that they often can go up to a couple of weeks between feedings.

I think there are several factors at work, though. First is the baseline sensation of being fully quenched, (i.e., just how bad is it at that point?). From what I read, the best-case scenario is still a dry, raw feeling in the throat?

You then have the time elapsed factor after feeding, which we really don't know a whole lot about, except that things get progressively more painful (although still not so bad after two weeks??? Edward’s eyes were black when he first met Bella, how long does it take before the throat feels like it is literally on fire???). And then there's the vampire’s general attraction to blood exposed or non-exposed, the general attractiveness of the blood itself, the potential “singer” or “Bella” effect, and the general self-control developed by the vampire. I’m sure there is a calculation somewhere in there. Most of the factors are multipliers against each other, with a dampening effect based on general self-control.

As far as Mike’s pinpricked finger goes, I would suggest another possible interpretation, and I am going to omit the most obvious, which is that Bella is so overwhelming that Mike’s blood is irrelevant. Edward may have been able to brush it off due to his self-control effectively nullifying the blood’s effect on him. Being able to disregard it, though, is different than saying that he isn’t thirsty or that drinking Mike’s blood wouldn’t have quenched whatever thirst he had.

Anyway, maybe the Illustrated Guide will answer some of this in greater detail.

EDIT:
P.S. Gryffindor!
[I'm trying to stay on topic here]

EDIT2:
P.P.S. Sorry, further clarification needed. I read the basic difference as the baseline thirst of the veggie vampires is always higher than the red-eyes, but their attraction to human blood is diminished the longer they abstain. The red-eyes can feel more fully quenched, but they are most comfortable after feeding and then removing themselves from the presence of humans. I think that’s the way it goes, that veggies always suffer to some degree? I think some more detail is needed, such as the level of pain involved for a veggie after feeding, with and without the presence of humans, and then the same thing but after a time elapse of about two weeks. And is it the level of attraction that diminishes, or a function of self-control, or some combination of both? Does Carlisle feel pain, or is he able to just compartmentalize the whole thing and effectively ignore it?
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: Twilight under the Sorting Hat

Postby ringswraith » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:05 pm

Random thought: It would be nice if we could get a poll going. Have people vote on which house they think TW characters would be in.

I just know someone out there's wanting to put Jacob in Slytherin. :ugeek:
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Re: Twilight under the Sorting Hat

Postby corona » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:58 pm

I've got a Slytherin. I see Lauren Mallory as basically being Pansy Parkinson, so Slytherin it is.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: Twilight under the Sorting Hat

Postby Esme echo » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:37 pm

ringswraith wrote:Random thought: It would be nice if we could get a poll going. Have people vote on which house they think TW characters would be in.

I just know someone out there's wanting to put Jacob in Slytherin. :ugeek:

Perhaps so ringswraith, but Jacob is pure Gryffindor to me! He's a natural-born hero, not terribly bookish, not terribly patient . . . just . . . Gryffindor!
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Re: Twilight under the Sorting Hat

Postby marielle » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:02 am

I saw that you guys/girls put Bella in Huffelpuf... but I think that is really unfair...
I know her loyalty and friendliness are qualities for Huffelpuf, but I'm sure the sorting hat will put her in Gryffindor..
My reasons, Bella has shown great courage and determination...she shouldered the secret of the vampires and had the courage to have a relationship with Edward...see didn't fear Jacob or any of the other wolves, and if she did see was couragous enough not to show it...she had courage enough to sacrifice herself like the third wife. but also she had the courage and the strength to go through the pregnancy...
I think this will be considered when she caps the sorting hat...

I know Edward and Snape could be comparissed in courage and action, but also in the fact that they both could be a Gryffindor and a Slytherin...
Edward has shown great ambition in his fight to keep Bella human, he was cunning in his fight against Jacob...and a bit sneaky. He relied on his power greatly and therefor felt slightly superior to Bella. he always thought he knew what was best for her, because he knew how the human mind worked.
maybe it's more fair to compare Edward to Harry...he would sacrifice himself for those he loves, the courage to turn away from Bella was immense...saem as Harry's when he decided to face Voldemort in the forest...
but the sorting hat wanted to place Harry in Slytherin at first, because he had all the qualities a Slytherin should have...and I think Edward has them too, it's the choises he made/makes that sets them appart and in Gryffindore...
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Re: Twilight under the Sorting Hat

Postby corona » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:17 am

I would put Carlisle and Esme both in Hufflepuff. Jasper and Alice I would put in Ravenclaw, although I think Alice could qualify for Gryffindor. Emmett goes into Gryffindor too, although he would also probably fit in Hufflepuff as well. Your mileage may vary.

But, where to put Rosalie??? Does she go into Slytherin? I don’t want to put her there, but she doesn’t seem to be a good fit elsewhere.

I think we get a skewed view of Slytherin during the time period of the books. The house tends to draw the nasty sorts, but JK has said that not all of them are bad. From what we see, though, almost every Slytherin is either a murderer, condones murder, or are too cowardly to say otherwise, which is likely the effect of having Voldemort on the loose.

For Rosalie, I would say stick her in Slytherin after Voldemort’s death, when the house is not so tainted. If she was sorted at the time of Harry, though, I would default to Ravenclaw. Her self-interest overshadows her good qualities, but they are still there. I don’t think she would have fit that well with that particular group of nasties at that particular time.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: Twilight under the Sorting Hat

Postby marielle » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:35 am

corona wrote:I would put Carlisle and Esme both in Hufflepuff

OOh I so not agree with you on this one...Carlisle is definitely a Ravenclaw..."wit beyong measure is men's greatest treasure" come on, Carlisle is the hard studying, hard working, smart guy...

corona wrote:I think we get a skewed view of Slytherin during the time period of the books. The house tends to draw the nasty sorts, but JK has said that not all of them are bad. From what we see, though, almost every Slytherin is either a murderer, condones murder, or are too cowardly to say otherwise, which is likely the effect of having Voldemort on the loose.

The sorting hat, says that your right...the sorting hat's song talks about the cunning, the ambitious, and Power hungry, I think Rosalie does meet most of that, she isn't really power hungry...but she is very ambitious.
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Re: Twilight under the Sorting Hat

Postby ringswraith » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:10 pm

Esme echo wrote:Perhaps so ringswraith, but Jacob is pure Gryffindor to me! He's a natural-born hero, not terribly bookish, not terribly patient . . . just . . . Gryffindor!


He also comes across as very selfish, and some would argue that he's definitely had his share of manipulating Bella- both Slytherin-type traits.

I never said this would be an exact science. :ugeek:
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Re: Twilight under the Sorting Hat

Postby Jazz Girl » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:23 pm

marielle wrote:
corona wrote:I think we get a skewed view of Slytherin during the time period of the books. The house tends to draw the nasty sorts, but JK has said that not all of them are bad. From what we see, though, almost every Slytherin is either a murderer, condones murder, or are too cowardly to say otherwise, which is likely the effect of having Voldemort on the loose.

The sorting hat, says that your right...the sorting hat's song talks about the cunning, the ambitious, and Power hungry, I think Rosalie does meet most of that, she isn't really power hungry...but she is very ambitious.



I have to concur. I've never had any love for Rose. She's always struck me as horridly selfish and ambitious. Throw vanity in and top it off with being pretty spoiled and I don't really see any other choice. Yes, she fights along side her family, puts her life on the line with everyone elses. But, I always saw her motives as much more self-centered. Also, we have the knowledge that, even as a young girl, she was oblivious to the workings of the world outside of her sphere of being adored because she was pretty. Rosalie is a Slytherin through and through.
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