The Science of Twilight

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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ringswraith » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:32 am

Ovulate != getting pregnant, to use some coding logic.

Going by that argument, it may be possible that the female vampire can ovulate. But nothing else in that process occurs- no prepping of the uterus to host a possible child, no expansion of the womb to accomodate the fetus... Indeed, would the egg even be able to attach to the uterus at all, given what we know of (relatively) impermeable vampire skin?

One thing to note about the sperm comment- if they too were transformed and frozen in their current state, then what's to stop them from being viable? Sperm can be donated, and those are typically frozen and remain viable for quite some time; vampire sperm should be able to last forever since they can't actually decay.

Of course, this all assumes that they remain in the testes. However, since we all know Edward was a 100-plus-year-old virgin...
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby GrayceM » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:40 am

ringswraith wrote:Going by that argument, it may be possible that the female vampire can ovulate. But nothing else in that process occurs- no prepping of the uterus to host a possible child, no expansion of the womb to accomodate the fetus... Indeed, would the egg even be able to attach to the uterus at all, given what we know of (relatively) impermeable vampire skin?


Also a good point. I had forgotten about that "small" detail of how much a woman's body must change to accomodate a fetus growing. :oops: If they are able to ovulate though wouldn't that mean that they would have some sort of cycle? But then that also requires a changes in the hormonal balance and internal changes with the prep. There would be no lactation...or would all hybrid infants prefer blood? They have stated that change occurs rarely in their kind but that when it does happen it is permanent...
Would that mean also that the time that a male vampire can sire offspring would be limited to the number of sexual encounters he has after turning?

Another question that has "bothered" me for some time.
It is stated that the venom heals as it also transforms. It repairs Bella's broken bones and brings them back from the brink of death. After Bella is changed it's almost as though she were never pregnant. Do you think this is due to her body not having time to go through the necessary physical and hormonal changes so that the venom sees everything done to her body as a result of her being pregnant as an illness or something to repair? I wonder what would happen to the mother's body if she were changed during the 9th month of pregnancy with a human baby? What would happen to the baby? Or is this another thread altogether...
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ringswraith » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:24 pm

As you observed, none of the other changes associated with a period occur- so I suppose the female vamp would have some kind of discharge to flush just the egg, if at all.

That's assuming of course that they can even ovulate. That is a process brought about by normal biorhythms, which no longer exist in the vampiric state. Males on the other hand... "produce" (for lack of a better term- but in this instance I do not mean "create" but rather "provide") sperm as a result of stimulation- getting cells from point A to point B, if you will.

As far as the venom healing Bella's body, I've always assumed that the venom returns you to your normal, healthy self. By the time the venom courses through her, the pregnancy is over- and (in my thinking) the venom starts to "fix" Bella back to the way she was because she no longer needs the extra space (etc.) that supporting a baby required. (Of course this all sounds like the venom is sentient in a manner of speaking...)

And I do believe that Mrs. Meyer has herself said that if a pregnant woman is bitten, she will remain pregnant forever. (Can you imagine?)
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby GrayceM » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:30 pm

Oh no...I don't even want to think about that. :shock: I suddenly have the picture of that little man growing out of the guy's stomach in Total Recall. :? little disgusted now...
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby corona » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:03 pm

GrayceM wrote:...After Bella is changed it's almost as though she were never pregnant. Do you think this is due to her body not having time to go through the necessary physical and hormonal changes so that the venom sees everything done to her body as a result of her being pregnant as an illness or something to repair?...


I’m pretty sure that is it. SM has stated that Esme’s figure is a bit “rounder” than the others because she had recently given birth before being changed. The venomization process completely heals her, but there does appear to be some limitations as far as the general shape of the body, so she does not return completely to a pre-pregnancy state. Bella does not appear to be affected like Esme because her pregnancy was so abnormal and she did not gain any weight apart from the child. It’s possible that she actually was going through physical / hormonal changes, but had become so emaciated that it just didn’t show. Maybe if they had all discovered the blood diet sooner and she had maintained proper nourishment, we might have ended up with at least a slightly fuller-figured Bella.

Bella also makes an interesting comment after the change when she is looking at herself in the mirror, saying something along the lines of her legs looking strong. I’ve never heard her make such a comment before. I am assuming that there was some additional apparent muscle mass and/or tone added during the “idealization” part of the change.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:53 am

I don't know if I've asked this before, but is it possible, as far as is known, for human vampire hybrids to get piercings or tattoos. If not, would they have to draw on themselves and wear clip-on earrings? Or could such technology have to be invented, as I can imagine Nessie wanting to wear earrings? Maybe a little Cullen "Vorsprung durch Technik" is in order...

And could Nessie's apperance be in part reflected in the that it's believed that Bella has had some minor physical changes after she became a vampire (the idealization process)?
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ringswraith » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:09 pm

Chernaudi wrote:I don't know if I've asked this before, but is it possible, as far as is known, for human vampire hybrids to get piercings or tattoos. If not, would they have to draw on themselves and wear clip-on earrings? Or could such technology have to be invented, as I can imagine Nessie wanting to wear earrings? Maybe a little Cullen "Vorsprung durch Technik" is in order...


Seeing as Edward believes her skin is as impermeable as theirs, highly unlikely (for either piercings or tattoos). I certainly believe something like a piercing needle or an ink machine wouldn't work.

Chernaudi wrote:And could Nessie's apperance be in part reflected in the that it's believed that Bella has had some minor physical changes after she became a vampire (the idealization process)?


I'm not sure I understand this question- care to elaborate? :)
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby corona » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:02 pm

Chernaudi wrote:I don't know if I've asked this before, but is it possible, as far as is known, for human vampire hybrids to get piercings or tattoos. If not, would they have to draw on themselves and wear clip-on earrings? Or could such technology have to be invented, as I can imagine Nessie wanting to wear earrings? Maybe a little Cullen "Vorsprung durch Technik" is in order...

And could Nessie's apperance be in part reflected in the that it's believed that Bella has had some minor physical changes after she became a vampire (the idealization process)?


I don’t think piercings or tattoos would be possible on a hybrid. My theory on the vampirization process is that they first go through their flesh repair and restoration process, and then their crystallization process. I think most of the “idealization” process is done in the flesh, drawing on the human DNA as a blueprint and then essentially recreating the entire body with some additional “buffing” instructions thrown in to boot. This repair and restoration process does a lot of things, but my guess is that it also would close up any holes created by piercings. Any foreign object would be consumed by the venom.

I believe there are some additional changes noticeable after crystallization, though, especially in the face which takes on a more angular and sculpted look. Once that process is fully completed, it is over for the vampire, no more restorative repairs are possible, except that clean breaks can be rejoined with an application of venom.

For Nessie, though, I think that process continues for the rest of her life, as she is never fully crystallized. For piercings, the needle would not only have to pierce the flesh but push it aside to make room for the post, which would have to be made out of a material that could endure contact with venom. Even if that were possible, her body would be constantly trying to repair that damage. I can see her pulling the post out, fumbling around for the earrings, and then looking up to find out that the hole has already been sealed and repaired. Tattoos would require thousands of piercings, and you would have to have a needle that doesn’t break or dull itself after the first few breakings of the skin. I have no idea how her body would respond to the ink, but I suspect that wouldn’t last either.

Nessie would have some of the “idealization” features of vampires, but how much can’t be known since we have no way of telling what she would look like as a pure human. I assume she is very attractive and appears to be in absolutely perfect physical condition. As far as having that same sculpted look that the Cullens all share, I would guess…somewhat, but my own image of her is more human than vampire.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:41 am

On the piercings and such, could the Cullens maybe invent such technology to make it work. Granted, if what you say is true, they'll have to redo the piercings when Nessie takes out her earrings, and tattoos for if another hybrid has them. Also, Nessie and all known female hybrids don't have venom. But even then, if the earrings are removed, the process has to be done all over again.

As for the idealization for hybrids, I'd guess that they'd have some of that put in them based on their parents' DNA. However, as you said, they might not really have a lot of that, as they're kind of born "perfect" in that sense.

However, since Nessie can change, could the "idealization" be on going for the rest of her life, which very well could be forever for all we know, or could the "idealization" be primarily or wholy though gestation?

Of course, if Nessie was human, they could get her all the piercings and tattoos she wants, make her a vampire, and then figure out a way to make her a hybrid. But per cannon, Nessie was born a hybrid, and unless Bella somehow becomes a hybrid in the future, the whole deal is pretty unlikely, isn't it? Not that Nessie is a piercing/tattoo girl to begin with, though she's not a teen/adult at story's end.

That being asked, is there any possible way for a vampire to become a hybrid, as I've asked in the past with Bella for a fan fic--becoming a venomous female hybrid? Unlikely, but this is fantasy fiction, though it seems that the Twilight Saga is basically over, even with so much left open ended/up to interpretation. But that does leave it open to wonder if there could be such a thing as a female hybrid born with venom...
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ringswraith » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:31 am

Going with the concept of vampires as unchanging, mostly permanent things, I would have to say no. You're trying to input human traits into a vampire- and for all intents and purposes, vampire venom trumps human cells. As for female hybrids with venom, I would say that while there is (thus far) nothing to say that they definitely could not exist, there are examples in nature of animals where only one gender is poisonous. The duck-billed platypus comes to mind (only males produce venom) and years and years of time haven't changed that particular detail.

If the Cullens or indeed, any vampire happened to invent something that could even pierce vampire skin, the consequences could be disastrous. (Consider giving the Volturi yet another weapon with which to maintain control over their kind.)

Chernaudi: I think you may have missed the question I asked you earlier- I'm still not understanding your question regarding "idealization."
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