The Science of Twilight

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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:59 pm

I don't know where such a thing would make things easier for the Volturi aside from being able to do such a thing from a distance--vampires can bite each other apart, and I think that hybrids have the same capabilities.

That being said, that would make the deal of piercings and tattoos and an "easier" but messy, waste-of-time affair.

As to the idealization, refer to the comments that Bella made about herself after she changed over to being a vampire, namely this:

Bella also makes an interesting comment after the change when she is looking at herself in the mirror, saying something along the lines of her legs looking strong. I’ve never heard her make such a comment before. I am assuming that there was some additional apparent muscle mass and/or tone added during the “idealization” part of the change.


I'm wondering if hybrids might have something similar during their gestation.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ringswraith » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:30 am

If I'm looking at the right passage in BD, and I quote:

    My first reaction was an unthinking pleasure. The alien creature in the glass was indisputably beautiful, every bit as beautiful as Alice or Esme. She was fluid even in stillness, and her flawless face was pale as the moon against the frame of her dark, heavy hair. Her limbs were smooth and strong, skin glistening subtly, luminous as a pearl.

Reading this passage, I recall how the human Bella described the Cullens. She's always commented on their otherwordly beauty (as she mentions above, with regards to Alice and Esme) and the appearance of strength (the Cullen men). This is her first time seeing herself as one of them- she may be a vampire now but her mental self is still the same. She's observing herself as the human Bella observed the vampire Cullens. I don't think she's idealizing herself- I think she's just seeing what's always been there, just hidden behind her low self-esteem (and arguably her fashion choices).

(Also remember how Edward has always seen Bella as beautiful. In my opinion, this is just a matter of point-of-view. Everything is in the eye of the beholder, after all.)
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby corona » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:07 pm

As far as “venom” goes, there is the venom that basically replaces water in the body, so that all vampire fluids become venom-based, and then there are the special properties of the venom in the mouth that can begin changing a human into a vampire. It is my belief that Nessie does have venom in her system, she simply doesn’t create that special kind in her saliva that other vampires and Nahuel have.

From SM’s Breaking Dawn FAQ (edited): A fluid similar to the venom in their mouths works as a lubricant between the cells, which makes movement possible… A fluid similar to the same venom lubricates their eyes so that their eyes can move easily in their sockets… The lubricant-venom in the eyes and skin is not able to infect a human the way saliva-venom can.

I would agree with ringswraith that any type of high-tech alloy that is capable of piercing vampire or hybrid skin automatically becomes a potential weapon and would have a far greater impact on the TW vampire world than something used merely for piercings and tattoos.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:00 pm

But as I inferred, why not make such an item out of vampire teeth? That's more readily available than Tungsten Carbide or Depleted Uranium/Plutonium, all of which I doubt would do significant damage. I don't think even diamonds could do any serious damage considering how hard a vampire's/hybrid's skin is.

And if it's metal, the venom would destroy or damage the object after at most a few uses.

I think that if the Volturi--taking into effect Aro's desire and fondness for experimentation--would have to come up with something far more advanced that any of the German's Wunderwaffen (wonder weapons) that were developed in World War II, which calls in to questions whether or not humans have anything that can challenge a hord of vampires--even thermonuclear weapons might not pose a serious threat to them for all we know.

So unless the Volturi want to collect vampire teeth, I think that they'd be out of luck there, as nothing on earth may do the damage that they'd desire.

And of course, with as rapidly as vampires heal, doing any permanent damage would also be a massive challenge also.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:08 pm

New question, and it kinda ties in with a fan fic that I'm writing about hybrids. Is it, in theory at least, possible for a hybrid to have tubial ligation done to them (ie, can they be "fixed")? I'm asking this because in my story, the hybrids have it done as a birth control measure, namely preserving their eggs for future use. After all, hybrids live forever, but it's clearly not known if they have a limited supply of eggs, or they can reproduce.

If they can't have the operation done, would an attempt to have some of their eggs removed and preserved that way work?
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ringswraith » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:21 am

To turn the question on its side, why would they need birth control? If I recall Leah's concerned about being sterile because she's stopped having her period. That means she's not ovulating, which means the eggs are just... there and not going anywhere. So why undergo a procedure (which while probably possible, would be rather difficult to do given their regenerative ability) when their state of being is already taking care of that?
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:15 am

ringswraith wrote:To turn the question on its side, why would they need birth control? If I recall Leah's concerned about being sterile because she's stopped having her period. That means she's not ovulating, which means the eggs are just... there and not going anywhere. So why undergo a procedure (which while probably possible, would be rather difficult to do given their regenerative ability) when their state of being is already taking care of that?


Leah's a shape shifter, not a hybrid. Nessie's the only female hybrid that's known about that can be stuided. Nauhel produces sperm, and has since he hit puberty, when ever that was. So one can assume that Nessie would be in theory able to reproduce for the rest of her life if she has the eggs to do it with. But would hybrids run out of eggs, have in infaninte supply, or will the eventually run out. Or can they shut their reproductive system on or off at will? I don't know how'd they'd to the latter, though.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby corona » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Chernaudi,

There are lots of problems with any kind of surgical procedure on someone like Nessie. It’s just a lot of work trying to figure out some way to get it right so that whatever solution you come up with seems believable. The more complex, the greater the likelihood you end up leaving a gaping hole in logic somewhere that was not immediately obvious, and then all that work you did trying to come up with a believable solution goes down the drain and it makes things look even worse because you spotlighted the whole thing. Believe me, I gave a lot of thought to your question, and there are just so many pitfalls with the procedure itself and Nessie’s hardened skin, her regenerative abilities, and the whole menstruation thing. I don’t see her regenerating ova, and I don’t think anyone wants to curse her with an eternity of periods. Once she hits her period she has a maximum of somewhere around 40 years or so to get pregnant, and then that is it, unless you want to fool around with the frequency of her cycles, and that might be your best bet.

How about a simpler solution that gives Nessie and Jacob a lot more flexibility in the timing of childbearing? Let’s say that Nessie doesn’t have any periods whatsoever; that gets you through some potential weird issues when she is still growing up and having periods at that time that are going haywire due to her accelerated growth. Maybe she thinks she is infertile, but she discovers at some point that she can have periods as long as she maintains either a strict all-human food diet (maybe even a pure vegan diet), or an all-vampire diet of blood (all animal, all human, or it doesn’t matter). That also enables her to turn it on at will, as long as that diet is strictly maintained for a certain period of time (going off the diet would then stop the ovulation). The diet might also have to be maintained throughout her pregnancy or else she has miscarriages, who knows, there’s a lot of room to play around in that area. Throw in some artistic license, that the ova do not degenerate over time, and Nessie would be able to potentially bear children centuries from now.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby ringswraith » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:52 pm

Oh, my mistake. Totally went on the wrong supernatural there didn't I? :oops:
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Postby Chernaudi » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:38 am

corona wrote:Chernaudi,

There are lots of problems with any kind of surgical procedure on someone like Nessie. It’s just a lot of work trying to figure out some way to get it right so that whatever solution you come up with seems believable. The more complex, the greater the likelihood you end up leaving a gaping hole in logic somewhere that was not immediately obvious, and then all that work you did trying to come up with a believable solution goes down the drain and it makes things look even worse because you spotlighted the whole thing. Believe me, I gave a lot of thought to your question, and there are just so many pitfalls with the procedure itself and Nessie’s hardened skin, her regenerative abilities, and the whole menstruation thing. I don’t see her regenerating ova, and I don’t think anyone wants to curse her with an eternity of periods. Once she hits her period she has a maximum of somewhere around 40 years or so to get pregnant, and then that is it, unless you want to fool around with the frequency of her cycles, and that might be your best bet.

How about a simpler solution that gives Nessie and Jacob a lot more flexibility in the timing of childbearing? Let’s say that Nessie doesn’t have any periods whatsoever; that gets you through some potential weird issues when she is still growing up and having periods at that time that are going haywire due to her accelerated growth. Maybe she thinks she is infertile, but she discovers at some point that she can have periods as long as she maintains either a strict all-human food diet (maybe even a pure vegan diet), or an all-vampire diet of blood (all animal, all human, or it doesn’t matter). That also enables her to turn it on at will, as long as that diet is strictly maintained for a certain period of time (going off the diet would then stop the ovulation). The diet might also have to be maintained throughout her pregnancy or else she has miscarriages, who knows, there’s a lot of room to play around in that area. Throw in some artistic license, that the ova do not degenerate over time, and Nessie would be able to potentially bear children centuries from now.


Only problem is that Nessie using food to control her menstral cycle is that if she's pregnant, and she drinks blood, wouldn't the baby get stronger if it inheritied enough hybrid/vampire genes, just as Nessie did when Bella was pregnant with her?
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