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Re: Charlie Swan

Postby opulent » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:57 am

I agree with Esme Echo that it would have definitely changed Charlie. But I think it would have changed Bella too had she stayed with her dad. Remember, Bella didn't think highly of herself when she came to Forks. But consider her background: she came from a big city, where there is a much more diverse mix of kids, and where there are usually more people to compete with at school for attention. Bella also concentrated on her mom, and I think that Bella let a lot of her emotions rest on her mom as well. After all, if her mom was more important than she was, then that would explain why Bella felt "uninteresting" when she came to Forks.

However, if she had been raised in Forks, she may not have had the same sense of her own "uninterestingness". She definitely could have concentrated on her own emotions more, rather than her mom's. That means she could have gone two ways: felt more depressed about herself, or felt much more full of herself than she was. I'm inclined to think that she would have been slightly more aware of her own self-worth. The way that the boys at school treated her probably would have changed her attitude once she was exposed to it for years at a time growing up. Either way, this would have changed her relationship with Edward. If it were the first, she would definitely have been stronger, and probably not the Bella that he knows and loves. The feelings on his side might not have been nearly what they were, and voila! He gives into the temptation to kill her.

On the other hand, if she were weaker. . .first of all, she might not have let her relationship with Edward develop at all, because she wouldn't have felt worthy of him. And if she did, she definitely would have committed suicide when he left, meaning that the story is over, let's all go home.

But I think what is more interesting is the idea that Bella's sense of her own "uninterestingness" is fueled by her mother, if not caused by it. Remember, Bella tells Edward that her mother is eccentric, and prettier than she is. That would give Bella a reason to believe that since she isn't like her mother, that she isn't worth the attention and love that Edward is giving her.

Okay, I am going on waaay too long about something that is purely theoretical in the first place. I am going to move on with my life now. . .okay, maybe not, but I will attempt to do so.
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Re: Charlie Swan

Postby The Dark Knight » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:36 am

Ok, Charlie plays a lesser role in the book but a very important one. How do you all see his role? What would you like him to be like?
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Re: Charlie Swan

Postby zastrow » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:23 pm

Wow it sure has been a long time since anyone posted here!

I really wondered about Charlie as he is pretty much the only human we see after the wedding.

I just cannot imagine the Chief of Police not driving up to the Culllens and demanding to see his daughter. And once Jacob arranges for him to see her, his attitude of, please don't give me too much information is a bit puzzling.

He must know what is going on, doesn't he? Through the first three books I really liked his character. Breaking Dawn is such a conundrum that Charlie being a bit off is OK with me.

As far as what his role is, I see it as a connection for Bella to her humanity. Besides that, he now needs to maintain order in a town that is inhabited by Vampires and Werewolves (shape shifters really) and no human can know about that. Its a tough job.
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Re: Charlie Swan

Postby Jazz Girl » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:42 pm

zastrow wrote:Wow it sure has been a long time since anyone posted here!

I really wondered about Charlie as he is pretty much the only human we see after the wedding.

I just cannot imagine the Chief of Police not driving up to the Culllens and demanding to see his daughter. And once Jacob arranges for him to see her, his attitude of, please don't give me too much information is a bit puzzling.

He must know what is going on, doesn't he? Through the first three books I really liked his character. Breaking Dawn is such a conundrum that Charlie being a bit off is OK with me.

As far as what his role is, I see it as a connection for Bella to her humanity. Besides that, he now needs to maintain order in a town that is inhabited by Vampires and Werewolves (shape shifters really) and no human can know about that. Its a tough job.


Zastrow~ First, welcome to the Lex. It's always nice to see new faces. I'm not so puzzled as to Charlie's not going to see Bella after they return. He trusts Carlisle when he tells him that she is ill and should not expose others. At that point, he has no reason to doubt anything Carlisle tells him about Bella or her condition. And, after Ness' birth, well, he trusts his daughter when she says she's happy and things are alright. But, you are absolutely right in not envying Charlie his job keeping the peace in a sleepy little town that just happens to house vampires and shapeshifters.
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Re: Charlie Swan

Postby Esme echo » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:06 am

zastrow wrote:I just cannot imagine the Chief of Police not driving up to the Culllens and demanding to see his daughter. And once Jacob arranges for him to see her, his attitude of, please don't give me too much information is a bit puzzling.

This reminds me of Edward telling Bella something like, "Charlie's happier when he pretends to believe what you're telling him." My quick search didn't reveal where in the saga Edward said that . . . does anyone know?

I think, in his gut, Charlie knew the Cullens weren't quite . . . right. He was defensive of them, partly because he hated small-mindedness, but partly because he didn't want to examine them too closely -- the surface story was reasonable, they caused no trouble in town, and Dr. Cullen was a huge benefit to the hospital. In his subliminal view, too close an examination might result in inconvenient and uncomfortable discoveries that might be better left alone. His was a typical human response to the vampire presence in town!
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Re: Charlie Swan

Postby zastrow » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:22 am

Esme echo wrote:This reminds me of Edward telling Bella something like, "Charlie's happier when he pretends to believe what you're telling him." My quick search didn't reveal where in the saga Edward said that . . . does anyone know?


That is Eclipse Chapter 20--Compromise. I had forgotten that and it is does speak to why he stayed away. I took a particular interest in Charlie as I was compared to him and did not know if that was good or bad :)

Thank you both for the responses.
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Re: Charlie Swan

Postby pyrosis » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:25 pm

I really like Charlie and think he is an important charakter in the saga and love how Billy Burke portraits him in the movies.
I understand how difficult it must be for him to talk and interact with Bella as they both don't like to talk about feelings a lot and it makes them uncomfortable. And as many have said before, it is probably difficult for Charlie to relate to his teenage daughter, as they haven't been around each other much in the past 17 years.
And it seems to work out fine for them both that he is not around that much. She doesn't have to pretend and lie as much and he doesn't have to change his habits he developed in the past 15 years or more. And it is not as if he is not concerend about leaving her alone all the time, he askes her and she says she doesn't mind, that she is like her father in that way. So I don't think anyone is beeing neglected here, it's just an arrangement they both feel ok with.
In my opinion there is no need for him to be strikter with her. Bella is 17 when she moves in and already very independent. He knowes that she can take care of herself and that it would just cause more trouble if he did try to give her more boundries. He seems to avoid conflicts.

The not-liking-Edward-thing:
I absolutely understand that he is upset and suspicios with Edward, because Bella has the most radical reactions when it comes to that "boy". Wanting to leave Forks(or so he thinks), beeing catatonic when he leaves, taking off to L.A. (or so he thinks) without telling him - all because of that Edward guy. And Charlie tries to keep Edward away from Bella(New Moon, Chapter 24), but he has to realise that he can't, that it would only make Bella angry and since she is 18 she could just leave if she wanted to. So he kind of resigns but still wishes Bella would change her mind and soi tries to encourage her to see Jake. Esp. since he's seen how good Jake was for Bella when she was broken because of Edward.

And yes, he was absolutly sweet with Renessmee and I love that they managed to include him to the family. Although you can see, that he is not happy about the whole thing, esp. when he finds out that Bella knew what she was getting herself into and lied to Charlie for years. But he is just relived that he didn't lose his daughter.

And I am not so much concerned but curious how he and Sue will manage their relation ship. Because he clearly knows that she is in on the secret as well. Because she comes up to the Cullens with him and sees Renessmee grow very fast and do things normal kids her age can not. I am sure she knows more or less how much she is allowed to tell him, without endangering him. They will find their way. And it is probarly easier for him to be with someone who knows about the supernatural world than with someone he really had to lie to.

There are only two times where I think Charlie made a mistake
1. when he said that Bella has to try to contact Jake(beginning of Eclipse). Doesn't he see that she IS trying, that he doesn't want to talk to her?
2. when Charlie takes Jakes side when he kisses her. Uarg! I already hate Jake for doing that and Charlie that he is not mad at him for doing something to his daughter that she clearly does not want. That really freaks me out. Do they both not understand that Jake crossed an intimate line here, that it is just disgusting beeing kissed by someone you don't want to be kissed by (or at least you think so). That seems very disrespectful to me!
You know, Edward, as a brother you are sometimes a dissappointment

Oh, never mind! my less noble side exulted

Then the jokes about the world's only clumsy vampire would start

'Bout time someone scored around here
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Re: Charlie Swan

Postby zastrow » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:48 pm

pyrosis wrote:There are only two times where I think Charlie made a mistake
2. when Charlie takes Jakes side when he kisses her. Uarg! I already hate Jake for doing that and Charlie that he is not mad at him for doing something to his daughter that she clearly does not want. That really freaks me out. Do they both not understand that Jake crossed an intimate line here, that it is just disgusting beeing kissed by someone you don't want to be kissed by (or at least you think so). That seems very disrespectful to me!


I have to agree with you that Charlie should not have said that, but he did say later that Bella had the right to punch anyone who tried to kiss her without her permission.

As pointed out to me on the Rosalie Topic that since the books are (mostly) Bella's POV, Charlie had to say it for us to know about it.

I thought his reaction was perfect Charlie and saying it out loud was a perfect 'Dad' thing to do. 'Mom' would never have said such a thing. She'd have known better.
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