Edward Cullen #6

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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby Jazz Girl » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:04 pm

Suzan~ You have to remember that BookWard and MovieWard are two very very different animals. And, most of the inconsistencies and things that are just downright un-Edwardly are the fault of one very specific individual. NM was by far the worst adaptation of the three. In the end, I always blamed that moment on the fact that they didn't want to take the time to have the entire conversation in the bedroom when Bella wakes up, but they HAD TO get the proposal in there some way, and using it to ramp up the drama seemed like a good idea to people not really in the know. So, that's what they did.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby December » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:43 pm

I don't have my book with me so I can't check the details but at least in the book it doesn't seem like his ulterior motives are to trick her into choosing him. So maybe I should be irritated with the movie adaptation...

Um, yeah....

(Full disclosure: not a fan of movies made from books, and certainly not these ones).

That is definitely NOT a possible interpretation in the book. I had no idea that the movie of NM set things up this way! I suppose it's an attempt to pave the way for the coming love triangle in EC a little better than the book does: NM!Bella seems so helplessly in love with Edward that it struck a lot of readers as a bizarre non-sequitur for her to suddenly start wavering in EC.

But as you describe it (I haven't myself seen the movie) it certainly sounds like a bad idea.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby VirginiaMay » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:22 pm

Suzan wrote:I was watching NM this weekend for the millionth time and I was actually a little dissappointed and irritated with Edward at the end. :oops:

It was in the very last scene when Bella confessed to Jacob that she loves him but that she doesn't want him to make her choose and after Jacob leaves Edward proposed. Is it just me or does that seem a little manipulative? It seems to me a little too perfect timing to propose right after she admits her love for Jacob (at this point still friendship-love but still) and says she feels like she has to choose. It makes him look as if he tricks her into choosing him; like he wants her to commit to him before she can change her mind and choose Jacob.
In the book it's the other way around. Edward proposed before they talk to Jacob. I don't have my book with me so I can't check the details but at least in the book it doesn't seem like his ulterior motives are to trick her into choosing him. So maybe I should be irritated with the movie adaptation...


Hey Suzan,

I think your instinct there about the problem being with the film adaptation is 100% right on. As Jazz Girl pointed out already. I just wanted to add that the entire ending of NM was a HUGE, MONUMENTAL, GARGANTUAN-sized let down. In my opinion it failed on so many levels to communicate the depth of what Edward learned in light of the disastrous decision on his part to leave. It also failed to communicate the part where Bella has her epiphany and finally understands that he truly loves her and why he left the way he did. That part of the book was so pivotal in my mind and they just skipped it entirely in the movie. Well, I suppose it was given the fly-by treatment in the scene under the clock tower where they kiss after he tells her he lied. It's like the express version of the conversation they had boiled down into half a second flash of Bella's eyes before they go at it. Not that we don't all love the kiss under the clock tower, but it wasn't an appropriate substitute for almost an entire chapter of text in the book.

Getting back to the subject at hand, and thinking specifically of the way they handled the proposal in the film... I think it was supposed to have been as though Edward and Bella were already having the conversation that would have lead up to the proposal in the car on their way back from the Cullens house. Then Jacob showed up in the middle of the road, and he and Edward have their verbal smackdown. Bella gets involved and it's Jake and Bella, "blah, blah, blabity-blah", and then Edward and Bella jump right back in to the discussion they were having after the family voted to make Bella one of them. But... now that you mention it, by cutting it the way that they did, I could totally see someone interpreting it all wrong. Needless to say, Edward was not trying to manipulate Bella anymore than she was trying to manipulate him.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby Esme echo » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:38 pm

I try hard not to consider what happens in the movies when analysing the Twilight characters. Melissa Rosenberg is definately not Stephenie Meyer. I don't like what she did with the first three films, and I dread to think what she's done to Breaking Dawn.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:23 am

Esme echo wrote:I try hard not to consider what happens in the movies when analysing the Twilight characters. Melissa Rosenberg is definately not Stephenie Meyer. I don't like what she did with the first three films, and I dread to think what she's done to Breaking Dawn.


The travesty of some of the things she's done to Edward's character... it just kills me the way he ends up looking now that MR's had her turn with him. I'm slightly partial, I know. But, I shudder to think what might have happened if he were left in the hands of a less capable actor. But, the bottom line is that BookWard and MovieWard are two very very different people.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby Suzan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:40 pm

Thanks for all your thoughts on this! I'm absolutely 100% sure now that the movie adaptation was to blame and my unconditional love for Edward has restored (not that it was actually gone) :D

VirginiaMay wrote:I think it was supposed to have been as though Edward and Bella were already having the conversation that would have lead up to the proposal in the car on their way back from the Cullens house. Then Jacob showed up in the middle of the road, and he and Edward have their verbal smackdown. Bella gets involved and it's Jake and Bella, "blah, blah, blabity-blah", and then Edward and Bella jump right back in to the discussion they were having after the family voted to make Bella one of them.

I've always seen it like that and this was the first time that I noticed the manipulation. I was a little distracted during the conversation in the car and missing that part is what brought on the new reaction, I think. (I was explaining my sister why they were voting. She has never seen/read anything Twilight related before and jumped in halfway through NM so it was a little confusing to her.)

VirginiaMay wrote:It also failed to communicate the part where Bella has her epiphany and finally understands that he truly loves her and why he left the way he did.

Definitely a major failure. That is the part I miss the most in NM.

Jazz Girl wrote:But, I shudder to think what might have happened if he were left in the hands of a less capable actor. But, the bottom line is that BookWard and MovieWard are two very very different people.

Very true on both accounts.
Now I want to go read the books again and reconnect with BookWard (brilliant name by the way).
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby December » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:47 pm

Suzan wrote:Now I want to go read the books again and reconnect

YES!!!!!!

(*grin*)

With no disrespect in the world intended to any fan who is able to find their Edward in the movies. More power to you. But the books are....pretty special.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby Suzan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:14 pm

December wrote:
Suzan wrote:Now I want to go read the books again and reconnect

YES!!!!!!

(*grin*)

With no disrespect in the world intended to any fan who is able to find their Edward in the movies. More power to you. But the books are....pretty special.

I agree that the movies can't touch the books by far. But the movies are so much more time-efficient. I know that if I start reading the books now I can't put them down and I don't have the time for that. In fact I barely have the time to take two hours to see the movie (I shouldn't even be Lexing right now actually). If I had all the time in the world I would never stop reading but I don't, so the movies are just an easy and quick fix. ;)
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby Esme echo » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:52 pm

Yes, film does have it's attractions; as a visual learner, I love to see what I've been imagining. Watching Twilight's creation was a blast (my daughter was an extra in the film), but my enthusiasm has waned a bit more with each film. The plots seem to reflect less and less what I hold dear in the books. The glorious, thoroughly good Edward who is loved by Carlisle, Esme and Bella has been obscured by moody, depressed Rob.

I don't think it's Rob's fault -- it's the medium. I don't think film can portray the complexity that is Edward. Edward certainly had his moody, depressed moments, but he was also gloriously in love with Bella, and joyful in her company. Given the time constraints of a typical movie, there's no way the writers/producers can address all the important aspects of the story and get Edward right. It's just not going to happen.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:10 pm

Esme echo wrote: I don't think film can portray the complexity that is Edward. Edward certainly had his moody, depressed moments, but he was also gloriously in love with Bella, and joyful in her company. Given the time constraints of a typical movie, there's no way the writers/producers can address all the important aspects of the story and get Edward right. It's just not going to happen.


I absolutely agree. But, I think it goes beyond the time constraints. I think it has to do with the medium of film itself. Despite Rob's talents and best efforts, it is almost impossible to convey Edward's emotional complexity. There is so much that is internal, or is subtle context. You see and experience his joy in ways that are impossible to convey on a screen because you have to be privy to it. That context and flavour is lost on the screen. Please don't mistake me. I so love so much that Rob has brought to the screen in Edward. But, given the limitations of what he's given, a full colour portrait of Edward, as it were, is nigh on impossible. There is so much there that we know through third parties or interactions we never see in the films. There are critical elements to his character that we are never told. There are a few aspects of his personality that are just completely reversed ("it wouldn't be like drinking your blood, for instance" is a sentence that would NEVER EVER spew forth from his lips and I still can't believe it was written in there!). So, no matter how completely Rob inhabits Edward and brings him to life, his true story is still essentially untold.
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