Has this changed the story for you?

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Has this changed the story for you?

Postby bac » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:16 pm

Has the new information revealed in The Twilight Saga: The Official Illustrated Guide changed your take on the Saga, your feelings about any of the characters, or your understanding of the story?
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Re: Has this changed the story for you?

Postby RebeccaCullen » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:18 pm

If anything, it's made me hate Jacob a tad bit more, and loose some, if not all, of the respect and faith I had for SM as a writer.

I don't have the guide yet, but I've gotten some info from users over at Twilighted, and gotta say I'm not keen on buying it any time soon because of what they've shared.


On page 23 she says-this is a direct quote: "there is never just that one boy, and there's never this moment when you know.There's a choice there, and sometimes that's hard."

I think one would know if the boy is the one they want, and the only choice there should be is if the boy is worth fighting for.

And another thing that was shared and has me annoyed with was that Jacob has no deficiencies or something like that and he makes up for all the deficiencies Edward has. And pretty much how awesome Jacob is compared to Edward. Yeah, I could go on with the problem's I have with this statement(s) but I think I'd rather spare the mod's from having to clean my post.

Like I said, I was kinda excited about getting the guide but now I'm not so sure because of these two tidbit's. It's seems apparently clearer that SM resents how popular Edward became and how much she fell in love with Jacob/the pack and how she resents how little interest most people had with him/them.
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Re: Has this changed the story for you?

Postby TeamBella76 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:09 pm

It actually made me love the story more ! And I think the series is so much more interesting because you get to see all this stuff. And to the post saying Stephenie resents Edward I don't think that's the case. Stephenie Meyer just loves both of her characters and I see nothing wrong with that ! And I think she sticks up for Jacob a little more at times because of the hate certain fans have towards him for NO REASON. Jacob isn't perfect and he's annoying at times but the hate isn't necessary.
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Re: Has this changed the story for you?

Postby RebeccaCullen » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:09 pm

TeamBella76 wrote:It actually made me love the story more ! And I think the series is so much more interesting because you get to see all this stuff. And to the post saying Stephenie resents Edward I don't think that's the case. Stephenie Meyer just loves both of her characters and I see nothing wrong with that ! And I think she sticks up for Jacob a little more at times because of the hate certain fans have towards him for NO REASON. Jacob isn't perfect and he's annoying at times but the hate isn't necessary.


Saying SM resents Edward is just my opinion. And honestly, all her sticking up for Jacob and saying he's this perfect character et cetera, et cetera. does make it seem like she resents Edward for being the popular choice among fans. IMO, she fails to realize that she presented a story in the first two books of her series she had Bella sure of what her path was (Edward) and nothing, not time nor distance between them was ever going to break that bond (prime example: see NM when Bella is in Italy with Alice and Edward and the hole in her heart is gone, would give page but my books are upstairs).

And honestly, as I said, I haven't read the guide in full, but please, do tell me: anywhere in the guide does SM EVER say anything positive about Edward and puts Jacob down at the same time? Does she ever, in the guide, paint Edward as this amazing character like she does Jacob? Please, give me references from the guide where she does this, where she acknowledges Edward's awesomeness because the tidbits I've gotten say otherwise. All paint her preference for Jacob and his "awesomeness".


I highly disagree. I don't like him because he never admits he does anything wrong, and refuses to acknowledge that he was a jerk to Bella to name two. He knows full well that he could imprint and leave Bella heart broken to name another. I could go on as to why I don't like him, but that's no the point. Twilight and NM present this unbreakable bond between Edward and Bella, and SM seemed to through that out the window to make Eclipse work. IMO, Jacob would have worked better as a minor character through the last two books and had an entire series for his "awesomeness".

Edward isn't either, but the way SM wrote him made him, IMO, far more interesting then Jacob ever was in canon. SM has said that Jacob has no flaws (something I read in an interview or on her website, can't remember), and that he makes up the deficiencies that Edward has (according to what I've heard comes from the guide on one of the pages in the late 20's, I think, if you wanna look). And the way I see it, SM is the one that created Jacob and wrote him the way he behaved and then acts insulted when fans say they don't like the character. If she hadn't made him so selfish, IMO, this wouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Has this changed the story for you?

Postby smitten_by_twilight » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:48 am

I'm really enjoying the Guide and it has changed the story for me. I appreciate the characters better, especially the "evil" ones like Victoria and Caius, because you can see what has made them the way they are. I like that in discussing the really ancient vampires you can see that boredom has played a big role in their actions - what they do to try and entertain themselves through the undying millenia. I really enjoy the illustrations, even the ones I think are a bit off. It's also strengthened my perception that most of SM's female characters come to vampirism through abusive situations. I don't want to underestimate the amount of historical (and current) abuse of women, but still. Maybe those stories just stick in my head better.

Rebecca, I don't want to quote here (too much material to quote) and I don't want to argue too much. I adore Edward and Jacob and Bella all; I agree with you that Edward is the most interesting character of the three (has lived longer, experienced more, generally more complex personality); and I agree that Edward and Bella were on a trajectory that had only one possible ending. With that said ...

Jacob is a less flawed character than Edward. Yes, he is more of a guy, and he acknowledged his often-jerkishness to Bella in BD. But he has fewer major flaws - as SM put in, he has no "tragic flaw," a literary concept that I can't explain properly. Edward is obsessive, deceitful, manipulative, and swings wildly between being overcontrolling and too passive. Properly used, I admire most of these characteristics - and there is no question that Edward has many wonderful characteristics as well.

Someone told me once, before I met my husband, that we don't fall in love with perfect people - we fall in love with people who are perfect for us, who match our flaws. Bella's flaws and Edward's match well - they are both much better people for having the other in their life.

Bella does make a choice - there is always a choice, even when it seems like there isn't. She chose not to try to live through the heartbreak again in order to try a human life with Jacob. She would have had a wonderful life with Jacob - if she could have recovered from Edward's absence, which was improbable.

Hope this doesn't sound too preachy :oops: Try the Guide, it's not all about any one character, and a lot of it is quite cool.
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Re: Has this changed the story for you?

Postby Openhome » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:05 am

I wanted to step in here and try to explain something that Pel was able to explain to me. Like you, I was puzzled and a bit upset about how Stephenie responded to the questions in the interview. She came across as almost crass and as absolutely team Jacob. It was rather shocking to read, and I didn't understand how and why she could say some of the things about the characters. Then I went back and re-read it, and I noticed the date on it.
August 29th, 2008. This was after hell month for her.
Pel confirmed just how awful the month was for Stephenie and just how long ago all this information was gathered. Here is a list of just SOME of the things that happened in August.

Here is what August 2008 was like:
Aug 2 released midnight signing of Breaking Dawn, 1,000 people
Aug 3 backlash
Aug 5 Chicago signing 1,000 people
Aug 7 Los Angeles 1,000 people
Aug 12 Seattle signing 1,000 people
Aug 20th or so Midnight Sun leaked
Aug 28 Midnight Sun put on Stephenie's site
Aug 29 Interview With Shannon Hale


I think the reason it comes across so insanely harsh is that she was reeling from what was a horrid month. It was even a bad one for the Lex, as that was the month we were hacked and shut down by haters.

My question now is why they didn't put a new interview in the book??? That one is wonderful as a piece to show where she was at in 2008 (it's almost heartbreaking to think about it now), but I'm not sure it shows us what she believes now. I have a feeling, after reading Bree, that Edward is a little more important to her now than he was then.

So, please take the interview with a grain of salt, and join me in wishing the editors had had enough sense to give us something new that showed us her current mindset.
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Re: Has this changed the story for you?

Postby RebeccaCullen » Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm

Openhome wrote:I wanted to step in here and try to explain something that Pel was able to explain to me. Like you, I was puzzled and a bit upset about how Stephenie responded to the questions in the interview. She came across as almost crass and as absolutely team Jacob. It was rather shocking to read, and I didn't understand how and why she could say some of the things about the characters. Then I went back and re-read it, and I noticed the date on it.
August 29th, 2008. This was after hell month for her.


Huh, well now, that makes the interview make more sense I guess. Knowing this now makes me wonder why the publishers didn't redo the interview and change it with the one published, unless of course they had already printed them and didn't want to loose money.

smitten_by_twilight wrote:Hope this doesn't sound too preachy :oops: Try the Guide, it's not all about any one character, and a lot of it is quite cool.


Nah, it doesn't. I'm still trying to think of a place that within walking distance from my house so I can temporarily read the guide without having to buy it at the moment because of lack of funds.
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Re: Has this changed the story for you?

Postby smitten_by_twilight » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:05 am

Heck, Openhome, I'm surprised that she was willing to talk "Twilight" at all so soon after the "Midnight Sun" leak. Wow ... No wonder.
Rebecca, I just finished the Guide and felt so sad I went back to reviewing the bios again. It would be worth reading it standing up in a store until they come and hassle you to put it down or buy it. Good luck acquiring it!
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Re: Has this changed the story for you?

Postby RebeccaCullen » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:46 am

smitten_by_twilight wrote:Rebecca, I just finished the Guide and felt so sad I went back to reviewing the bios again. It would be worth reading it standing up in a store until they come and hassle you to put it down or buy it. Good luck acquiring it!


*snickers* It wouldn't be the first time I stood in a store reading a book and be told to buy it. I did that when HP5 was first released and was actually told to buy it the fourth or fifth day after I returned to the store.
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Re: Has this changed the story for you?

Postby missp » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:55 pm

The Guide has given me a new appreciation for every character. I love the backstories that I've been able to read so far. It's also given me a new perspective on SM's motivation and process for writing. Her bulleted outlines look very much like my own when I am writing fanfiction.
On SM's favortism towards Jacob... I know she loves Edward's character. However, Jacob obviously has a special place in her heart. As an author, I realize that sometimes some characters just grab hold of you and never let go. I am a HUGE Jacob fan, and in NM I HATED his character. But, as the series continued, he was endeared to me. I think what is important to remember is that Jake is a kid without all the many years of life-experience that Edward has under his belt. He was the perfect "spoil" to bring a little opposition to Edward's often over-bearing and controlling presence because Jake offered Bella a choice - and we ALWAYS have a choice - which gives the story a deeper picture of her own growth in making the right choice. Yes... Jacob can be a pain in the rear. Yes... he can be obnoxious. But, he is such a loveable ray of sunshine, I tend to love the bad along with the good.
Above all... I try to remember to keep it all in perspective... IT'S FICTION, AFTER ALL. :D
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