Family Trees: Lineage revealed

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Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby Jeakat » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:10 am

There's such a lot to consider with imprinting, which is why i find it such a fascinating subject! I agree, the fact that all of the other imprints are native does leave us with something to think about.

I just had a thought. Nessie can't have Quileute blood from the Ateara's because of Molly. Molly married into the Ateara family and not the other way around, so she took Swan blood into the Ateara family and not Ateara blood into the Swan family. I'm not saying there's not still a link, or denying the possibility that somewhere along the line the Swans have married into other native families (It's quite possible actually considering the Swans have probably been in Forks for a long, long time).

I read that but I still wonder about the genes because the family trees made a point of listing who carries the wolf gene. You would think it would be better if both members of each couple carried the gene. Survival of the species. But on the happiness front, Kim liked Jared before he ever noticed her. It was love at first sight for Sam and Emily and the book said Quil would be perfect for Claire because he'd be whatever she needed (brother, friend, lover). Why wouldn't they end up together?


Yes Kim liked Jared before they got together but I've liked a lot of people in the past (don't even get me started on my teen years :blush: ) but that doesn't mean that they were all the right person for me. Yet with all the imprinted couples there's love there. I don't think that can be explained by the imprint itself. Sure even if imprinting is love at first sight (which it could be), if the imprinted couples had nothing in common then they wouldn't last/ would have problems. They have to enjoy each others company. I just find it hard to see how imprinting would not only find your perfect genetic match but also the person you get on with best/have the most in common with etc. I could be completely wrong, imprinting could solely be for genetic purposes to either make the wolves stronger or give them the best chance of carrying on the line, I just think an element of it has to be personal too.

Plus Jacob has a double dose of wolf gene. He wouldn't need someone strong like Nessie. The wolves are all bigger than those of Ephraim Black's time and there are more of them than ever. But I think there's a trend here.


You could be right on the double dose front. In fact, I think it's a really good theory. But maybe, because he's an Alpha he does need it now that there's two Alpha's. It says in the guide that Sam wasn't really an Alpha until Jacob rejected the title when he first phased. Sam was a kind of stand in. I think it mentions in the introduction on wolves that Sam only came into his Alpha powers (being able to order unbreakable commands) when Jacob rejected. Now that Sam has the powers of a Alpha, maybe his children will also inherit the title, like Jacob's children will. I'm really specualting now, but perhaps Jake's children need to be stronger in order to fight off the competion? Or maybe you're entirely right on the double dose side, who knows!

You seem to be as interested as me in all this stuff, and I love it! It's rare to come across someone else who thinks a lot about the inner workings of imprinting!

I have a very 'out there' theory on why Jacob imprinted on Nessie. If imprinting is about genetics and stronger wolves and carrying on the line, then surely it must have something to do with preserving the wolves/wolf line too? If Jacob had killed Nessie then a fight would've definitely broken out between the Cullens and the wolves. All the wolves would've joined in and no matter what the outcome, a lot of the wolves would've died, if not all. If Jacob hadn't imprinted then a big chuck of the wolf line would have be obliterated, so maybe he only imprinted as it was the only way to keep the wolves going? As I said, it's a very 'out there' theory and I'm sure how much stock I put in it myself, but I like to use it as an easy excuse in my stories to carry on my Blackwater obsession!
I wasn’t born a compassionless shrew. I used to be sort of nice, you know - Leah Clearwater, Breaking Dawn, p.316
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Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby BellaMia » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:46 pm

I like paranormal books but in order to accept the fantasy there must be some basis in reality. I like to fill in the gaps so I have the a better understanding of the whole picture. There is no mention of whether the Swans were Quileute. In BD there are 16 wolves. Only 10 are listed in the family trees and only 4 families are mentioned. So a Swan/Quileute connection has not been excluded. The thing with Kim and Jared is that she did have feelings for him first. With Sam and Emily, there was Leah. Even though Sam imprinted on Emily, she did not have to accept him. She didn't really know him and Leah was there first. So she must have had some feelings too. Quil and Claire are different. But it was said that he would be perfect for her and be whatever she needed so why wouldn't she want him when she was old enough. Back to Jacob. Although there are now 2 Alphas, Jacob still has a higher position of power. That's why he is bigger than Sam and has the power to affect Sam stronger than the reverse. But if Jacob leaves and stops phasing, there is no reason for him to carry on the gene. What I find interesting is that Nessie seemingly imprinted on Jacob first. Wolves don't imprint until the wolf in their human form sees the object of his imprint. Bella was drawn to Jacob. Lighting up when he came into the room even though she was married and in love with Edward and neither Edward nor Jacob knew why. It was explained later that it was Nessie imprinting on Jacob in utero. Jacob didn't imprint until he saw Nessie in Rosalie's arms. SM specifically wrote this explanation for why it was OK for Jacob to imprint on Nessie. But a pattern had already been established with Quil and Claire. So there must be some other reason why this story was written this way. Bella knew the imprint on a child wasn't sexual in nature and she saw how strong the bond was by observing Sam and Emily and Jared and Kim. So why then was it made clear that it was Nessie who made a claim on Jacob first without ever laying eyes on him? There must be another reason behind it.
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Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby suzzeeQ » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:55 pm

If Jacob had killed Nessie then a fight would've definitely broken out between the Cullens and the wolves. All the wolves would've joined in and no matter what the outcome, a lot of the wolves would've died, if not all. If Jacob hadn't imprinted then a big chuck of the wolf line would have be obliterated, so maybe he only imprinted as it was the only way to keep the wolves going?


It's an interesting theory. I haven't thought about it that way before.

In BD there are 16 wolves.


There were 17 wolves in BD, fyi

With Sam and Emily, there was Leah. Even though Sam imprinted on Emily, she did not have to accept him. She didn't really know him and Leah was there first. So she must have had some feelings too.


I think Emily had a little crush on Sam too. She saw the contrast of Sam with Leah against her *sshole boyfriend and developed a little crush, which is understandable. Otherwise she would demand that Sam only be friends with her, nothing more. If she could command him to kill himself, she could command to him that they only be friends.

ut if Jacob leaves and stops phasing, there is no reason for him to carry on the gene.


Jacob will eventually leave, but he won't stop phasing so he could live forever with Renesmee. My question is, what will happend when he does leave. He's next in line for Chief. That's a huge responsibility he'll be leaving behind. Either Leah will take over because she's Beta (I know it said they're called Seconds, but they'll always be Betas to me), or Sam will take over because he's also Alpha.


I also noticed in the book it said this (p. 311):
"...the werewolf automatically becomes whatever the human want's him to be, at the loss of his personal free will."

It said human, not imprint. I wonder what that means.

And if Smeyer is trying to sell me imprinting with "loss of his personal free will," it's not working.
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Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby Jeakat » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:22 pm

Bella was drawn to Jacob. Lighting up when he came into the room even though she was married and in love with Edward and neither Edward nor Jacob knew why. It was explained later that it was Nessie imprinting on Jacob in utero. Jacob didn't imprint until he saw Nessie in Rosalie's arms. SM specifically wrote this explanation for why it was OK for Jacob to imprint on Nessie.


It's never proved that that is why they're drawn to each other. I have no problem with people believing that both Bella and Jacob felt a draw to one another because of the future imprint, but I just think it was convinient excuse to explain Bella's behaviour. That was one of the things I really wanted explained in the guide. If they had felt a pull because of the imprint, and when that pull started to take effect.
I wasn’t born a compassionless shrew. I used to be sort of nice, you know - Leah Clearwater, Breaking Dawn, p.316
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Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby BellaMia » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:47 pm

suzzeeQ wrote:
If Jacob had killed Nessie then a fight would've definitely broken out between the Cullens and the wolves. All the wolves would've joined in and no matter what the outcome, a lot of the wolves would've died, if not all. If Jacob hadn't imprinted then a big chuck of the wolf line would have be obliterated, so maybe he only imprinted as it was the only way to keep the wolves going?


It's an interesting theory. I haven't thought about it that way before.

In BD there are 16 wolves.


There were 17 wolves in BD, fyi

With Sam and Emily, there was Leah. Even though Sam imprinted on Emily, she did not have to accept him. She didn't really know him and Leah was there first. So she must have had some feelings too.


I think Emily had a little crush on Sam too. She saw the contrast of Sam with Leah against her *sshole boyfriend and developed a little crush, which is understandable. Otherwise she would demand that Sam only be friends with her, nothing more. If she could command him to kill himself, she could command to him that they only be friends.

ut if Jacob leaves and stops phasing, there is no reason for him to carry on the gene.


Jacob will eventually leave, but he won't stop phasing so he could live forever with Renesmee. My question is, what will happend when he does leave. He's next in line for Chief. That's a huge responsibility he'll be leaving behind. Either Leah will take over because she's Beta (I know it said they're called Seconds, but they'll always be Betas to me), or Sam will take over because he's also Alpha.


I also noticed in the book it said this (p. 311):
"...the werewolf automatically becomes whatever the human want's him to be, at the loss of his personal free will."

It said human, not imprint. I wonder what that means.

And if Smeyer is trying to sell me imprinting with "loss of his personal free will," it's not working.



You're right about the 17 wolves. It did say sixteen wolves then seventeen total including Jacob. Forgot that last part. But the point was that there were other wolves not accounted for besides the ten listed on the family trees. We don't know who they are or who their families are.

I don't think Emily had any feelings for Sam until quite sometime after he imprinted. She had other boyfriends after she broke up with the abusive one. The guide said Sam liked her because she was a good friend to Leah. I don't remember reading anywhere that she even knew Sam very well. Leah spent a lot of time with Emily trying to convince her to leave the boyfriend and I think that was on the Makah rez not in LaPush. Emily helped Leah out when Sam disappeared and was relieved for her when he came back. But after that she didn't trust him even when she saw him as a wolf. You can't like someone you can't trust. I don't think she had real feelings for him until she was in the hospital after her injuries. Only after she saw how Jared was affected by Sam's agony. Knowing how he was linked to Sam. Knowing Sue Clearwater believed, that she started to change her mind. Also when Sam asked her to tell him to kill himself. The book said she forgave him and realized he was the only one she wanted there even knowing how it would hurt Leah. She saw how much he cared for her and how truly guilty he felt. I don't believe she would have ever allowed herself to have a crush on Sam before that.

Jacob will continue to phase in order to be with Nessie and because of the proximity of the vampires that entails. I don't think he will ever be chief. He didn't want to be the Alpha, let alone their chief. He's perfectly happy letting Sam take that position. He only accepted the role of Alpha because of what the pack planned for Bella. He never would have otherwise. He resented being a wolf and was never as comfortable with it as some of the other pack members. When the Cullens leave town as they must always do, Jacob will follow and Sam will stay on in LaPush as Quileute chief when Billy steps down. I don't think they have an official chief at the moment. Only a tribal committee and but Billy seems to be in recognized as being in charge. Everyone usually looks to him because of his link to Ephraim. I think the separate packs will rejoin as one under Sam's leadership. They're already linked anyway. Bella's shield showed that when she shielded Sam, all the wolves were shielded. Leah wanted to leave town first chance she gets so she won't stay as anyone's Second.

I think the part of saying a human and not a imprint is that in the past all the imprints have been human. They wouldn't think it could be anything else just as they assumed all the wolves would always be male. Leah was a big surprise because it had always been the responsibility of the tribe's men to protect the tribe. It never occurred to anyone that a female could phase. Even when Billy told the story of Taha Aki he specifically mentioned "sons". So using the word human could just be out of habit like they say sons. It doesn't necessarily mean the object of a imprint has to be human. Leah is an example of things not necessarily being set in stone. But even Sam showed the ability to defy an imprint's order and express free will. Emily ordered him to go back to Leah and he refused knowing that he couldn't be who Leah needed. So a imprint does not cause the loss of free will. It just makes the decisions more difficult when it may affect the one they truly love.
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Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby BellaMia » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:56 pm

Jeakat wrote:
Bella was drawn to Jacob. Lighting up when he came into the room even though she was married and in love with Edward and neither Edward nor Jacob knew why. It was explained later that it was Nessie imprinting on Jacob in utero. Jacob didn't imprint until he saw Nessie in Rosalie's arms. SM specifically wrote this explanation for why it was OK for Jacob to imprint on Nessie.


It's never proved that that is why they're drawn to each other. I have no problem with people believing that both Bella and Jacob felt a draw to one another because of the future imprint, but I just think it was convinient excuse to explain Bella's behaviour. That was one of the things I really wanted explained in the guide. If they had felt a pull because of the imprint, and when that pull started to take effect.


I don't think there was any other reason for Bella to have that behavior other than because of Nessie's pull to Jacob alone. It wasn't how Bella would act. Edward and Jacob were certainly surprised by the way she reacted. They both knew who she loved the most and it didn't make sense to either of them for her to be like that. She never did with Edward. She tends to try and stay invisible or just on the fringe. Doesn't like to make a scene or be the focus of attention. She's too shy. It embarasses her. It just wouldn't be her to be so enthusiastic and cheery, calling attention to herself. She never has been overly emotional or expressive on the outside (other than attacking Edward when kissing) so the whole lighting up thing would be totally alien to her personality. It's just not who Bella is. But I don't think this behavior had anything to do with Jacob's imprint. It hadn't happened yet. Jacob was openly hostile to the unborn Nessie when he wasn't around Bella. He stuck around because he had been in love with Bella once and still had feelings for her. But he thought she was going to die and he didn't want to be there to see it happen either. So the same pull wasn't there for him then. Until Renesmee was separated from Bella, I don't think anyone could have guessed that it probably wasn't really Bella needing Jacob. It seems not until after Nessie was born did that feeling start to change. But it had to have been Nessie first. No imprint had ever been made before the wolf saw the object of the imprint. Jacob didn't react to being around Bella like she seemed to around Jacob. It was Nessie's pull outside of Bella that brought him downstairs but there still wasn't an imprint until he looked into Nessie's eyes. Then the impact of the imprint was described. So it was always about Renesmee. Part of her gift is that she draws people to her but her connection to Jacob is stronger. Equal to Bella but more than Edward. At least that's how Bella described Renesmee's thoughts and when she refers to Jacob as "her Jacob". Especially when shows she's glad Seth jumped in front of Bella and was hurt instead of Jacob.
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Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby Jeakat » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:17 am

The thing is, Bella did act happy to see Jacob before she was pregnant. At the beginning of Eclipse Bella was always trying to get in contact with him. Then when she did she was always happy to see 'her personal sun'. In fact, all the way through Eclipse, she's happy to see him. One of the reasons I have such a problem with Bella is because she realises her mistakes at the end of Eclipse. She realises that by keeping hold of Jacob she has hurt him, Edward and herself, and yet her actions and attitude in BD, to me, are no different than Eclipse. It was like she learned nothing. She was even happy to see Jacob at her wedding. I'd love to able to say she wouldn't do that to Edward, but she did, time and time again. None of that could have been Nessie. It couldn't have even been the fact the Nessie would be born in the future, because that wasn't set in stone, otherwise Alice would've seen it. Well, she would've seen Bella's future disappear due to the gaps in her vision.

I believe that Jacob was drawn to Bella when she was pregnant because she was on the verge of death. Even if his feelings were strictly plantonic towards her, he would've wanted to spend as much time as possible with her before she died. Bella's actions towards Jacob didn't change during her pregnancy, she was always overly happy to see him. I think that's because she built up a reliance on Jacob (an unhealthy one) when Edward was away in NM. At that time Bella felt like she needed him (an example of that is when Jacob becomes a wolf and avoids her, and Bella instantly starts falling back into her pain etc). Even when Edward returns, she's still afraid he could leave, and again, she relies on Jacob.

I'm not saying you're wrong. For all I know, you could be 100% right, but that's just what I believe. In fact, I think you are right in saying that Nessie in particular feels something towards Jacob. I just don't think that happened until after she's born.
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Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby BellaMia » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:14 pm

I know Bella loved Jacob but it was explained that she loved always Edward more. When Edward left in NM, Jake was the only one who could reach Bella. But even though she liked him, she was using him the entire time. She used his knowledge of motorcycles to hear Edward's voice. It was always about keeping the connection alive. Even when she thought she might have a future with Jacob, it was described like Romeo and Juliet. But he was like Paris. Edward was her Romeo. She would be settling with Jacob. When she turned her back on him to rescue Edward in Volterra, Jacob distanced himself. In Eclipse Bella is trying to get in touch with Jacob. Passing notes through Charlie, calling him frequently. But he's avoiding her calls and she's unable to go to LaPush because of her grounding and Edward's reluctance to let her near Jacob. But Jacob had thought she would come to LaPush but Edward was keeping her away not Charlie. Sam was the one who wouldn't let Jacob seek her out because he still thought Jacob was a danger to Bella. Jake is Bella's sun while Edward is like a drug to her or a eclipse. But she mostly seeks Jake out because she feels guilty about hurting him. Also because she thinks Edward's too protective and she needs some space while at the same time she's still afraid he'll leave her. But her attachment isn't really to him anymore. She's not quite comfortable with him when he's human. Seems more comfortable when he's a wolf. She misses who he was that's why she refers to him as Jacob and my Jacob. Two sides of who he is or was. Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. One she likes, the other not so much. She only spends time with him because she needs to be somewhere when Edward's hunting and Victoria is around. Part of Jacob's negotiation for the vampires and wolves working together. In BD Bella was happy to see Jacob at her wedding because she knew she hurt him. But also felt like with him gone, part of her family was missing. So that's why she wanted him there. She said once she wished Jacob could have been her brother. Like she loved him but wasn't IN love with him. Bella did disappear from Alice's vision. When she decided she wanted Nessie, she disappeared. That's why Alice called Edward's phone on their honeymoon. So the fact that she did disappear shows something odd. Whenever Bella was with the wolves she disappeared. Her future was lost in theirs. That's one of the reasons why Edward worried so much when Bella was with the wolves. She was unprotected. Alice couldn't see her and Edward wasn't allowed on the rez. Then during the entire pregnancy, Bella's future was fuzzy to Alice. She was having a hard time seeing Bella around Nessie. That's why Alice was comparing Nessie to Jacob. Nessie's future was invisible just like the wolves.

Jacob was around Bella during the pregnancy because he was afraid of the other wolves attacking and killing her. But seeing her pregnant sickened him. He was convinced she would die. He wanted to leave, badly. He didn't want to be there when she did die. That's why at the wedding he was trying to let her go. He wanted to remember her the way she was. Healthy and alive. When she wanted to become a vampire, he saw it as dying. But being human on her honeymoon he thought would be murder. At least as a vampire, she'd exist in some form even if he didn't see her as being Bella anymore. In BD it says "If she would just not care...Or more than that--really not want me around. It would be so much easier to stay away." He stayed because she was so ecstatically happy to see him. Like he made her whole day. He couldn't leave because it made her so happy for him to be there and she was dying. Her being afraid of Edward leaving was why in Eclipse she made him stay with her instead of fighting the newborns. She doesn't want to be away from Edward because he is her world. She rarely lets Edward out of her sight. He leaves only to hunt or search for Victoria. She stays with Jacob then because she doesn't want to lead the newborns to Charlie and Forks. So she's not really relying on Jacob as much as trying to keep the ones she loves safe.

But again, the Nessie thing about being pulled to Jacob before being born. That goes back to Bella blurring out of Alice's sight. That happens weeks before Nessie is born. It only has happened around wolves or when someone Alice is watching avoids her sight by not making any decisions. Alice wasn't trying to read Bella (or Nessie) anymore because of the headaches and she couldn't see anything more than a few minutes into the future anyway. So there is always the wolf-like connection. The similarities. Being invisible, the same number of genes, a overnight growth spurt. It's there. But no one seems to know why and that connection is specifically towards Jacob. Bella was around Seth, there was nothing extraordinary there. She is especially fond of him because he reminds her of how Jacob used to be. But Bella's reaction to Jacob was not normal. She would never encourage Jake in front of Edward. She purposely avoided feelings of love for Jake because she knew it would hurt Edward and she knew Edward had jealousy issues. She made it clear that Jacob was a friend she wasn't willing to give up, but she would never openly flaunt stronger feelings than that. She tries to balance her feelings because she tends to put everyone's needs before her own. Except when it comes to Edward. She always believed she cared for him more than he did her but she couldn't keep her sanity or live without him.
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Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby Jeakat » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:33 pm

A lot of the things you're saying I agree with. From the sound of your last post (and it's so hard to tell over the internet instead of face-to-face, so I'm sorry if I've got this wrong) it seems like you're trying to convince me to be Team Edward -- which I already am.

I know Bella wouldn't deliberately flaunt her 'feelings' for Jacob in front of Edward, but she has, albeit unintentionally, done it time and time again. E.g. being so happy to see Jacob at the wedding, constantly try to get in contact with him/go and visit him, kissing him. For the purposes of this conversation, it doesn't matter why she did those things, it only matters that she did do those things.

I don't think I explained my point properly in my previous post. I know Alice visions of Bella went blurry the moment Bella decided to keep Nessie. I wasn't trying to say that Alice's visions were unaffected, because they were. I was using that as an example of how Bella's behaviour to Jacob is the same in Eclipse as it is in BD. She's still happy to see him all the time. In BD, if Bella had been drawn to Jacob because of the imprint then her reactions to Jacob in BD would've been different. I mentioned Alice and her visions because some people like to argue that Bella and Jacob were so drawn to each in NM, and especially Eclipse because of the future imprint on Nessie. I argue that that can't be the case. If Nessie and the imprint were always going to happen then Alice's visions of Bella would've disappeared/become blurred a long time ago. Alice's visions, as we know, work from possibilities based on the choices people make. If Nessie was definitely going to happen (thus making Bella and Jacob be drawn to one another) then no matter what choices and decisions were made, their futures would all be the same. Obviously that can't be the case because, as I said, Alice's visions would've changed long before then, and so therefore, Nessie was only a definite part of their lives when Alice's visions changed.

He stayed because she was so ecstatically happy to see him. Like he made her whole day. He couldn't leave because it made her so happy for him to be there and she was dying.


Exactly. I agree. Jacob stayed while Bella was pregnant because he made her happy (like he'd done since NM, not because of the future imprint) and she was dying.

So there is always the wolf-like connection. The similarities. Being invisible, the same number of genes, a overnight growth spurt. It's there. But no one seems to know why and that connection is specifically towards Jacob.

I have to disagree. The fact that Nessie is invisible to Alice has nothing to do with Jacob. A theory that Alice had, which was pretty much proved to be correct, was that she couldn't see the wolves or Nessie, because she'd never been a wolf or a half-vampire. She could see humans and vampires because she had been both. This was proved when she went searching for Nahuel. Like Nessie, he was a blind spot in her visions and Alice even says that it took her so long to find another half-breed because she couldn't see where he was and had to search in the places that disappeared. The growth spurt is also nothing to do with Jacob. Nessie is just like the other four known hybrids. Nahuel explains that he and his sisters all grew way too fast and finished once they reached maturity, around age seven. None of the other hybrids have anything to do with Jacob. Humans have 23 pairs of chomosomes, werewolves 24 and vampires 25. It wouldn't be a stretched (though this is uncomfirmed knowledge), that if the person with 23 pairs (Bella) mates with a person with 25 (Edward) then their offspring will settle in between them with 24 pairs, the same as Jacob.
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Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby BellaMia » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:59 pm

I wasn't aware I was projecting Team Edward to anyone. That's just my take on how I interpreted the books and which actor I liked better. I always saw Bella and Edward together. I just didn't feel the relationship with Jake ever stood a chance. Mostly because Bella seemed to put Edward on a pedestal. He was perfect and godlike and she was ordinary. She worshipped him. The thing about Bella being happy to see Jacob at the wedding. She knew he was furious that she was marrying Edward and becoming a vampire. He stayed in his wolf form and ran away. Not really speaking to anyone but being in contact because of the wolf telepathy. She was so happy to see him because he was part of her family and she really wanted but didn't expect him to be there. Edward invited him. She didn't know anything about it. So it was a big surprise and it made everything feel complete. When she was trying to contact him it always was for a good reason. Bella didn't do anything inappropriate or wrong. There was no flaunting intentionally or otherwise. In NM it was because Jacob was sick after the movie and she was worried about him. He wouldn't accept the call or call her back and Billy wasn't being any help. She was worried that something was really wrong. Then she was worried because Jacob had been afraid of Sam and his "cult". She thought Sam got to Jacob. She was trying to protect him. In most of NM Bella wasn't very happy to really see anyone. She never really saw Jacob as an equal because he was younger. Then he was kind of means to an end. She found out putting herself in danger allowed her to hear Edward. Seeing the bikes and having cheap labor was a way to accomplish her goal. Jake knew she was still hung up on Edward but HE wanted her around anyway. Then because Victoria was looking for her. She never pulled out of that funk until she got Edward back. In the beginning of Eclipse, Jake's angry with her because in NM he learns she wants to be a vampire. She reaches out to him because her decision put him in agony and hurting him hurt her. She wrote the note and he avoided her. She didn't have any intent other than to somehow ease his pain. She didn't have any contact with him until she gets back from FL. Then it was mostly because she didn't like being Alice's prisoner and later because they needed somewhere for her to stay while they tried to find Victoria. Away from Charlie. She was under 24 hr surveillance. She knew how Jacob felt about her. But she was always rejecting him. He kissed her. She punched him. I got the feeling that he was always more excited to see her than for Bella to see him. He annoyed her mostly because HE went out of his way to do things to flaunt his relationship with Bella in front of Edward. She kissed him because she thought he was going to purposely get himself hurt and she was looking for any way to avoid that. She didn't respond the way he did but ultimately gave in because she realized she did have feelings but never really had acknowledged its existence until that moment. But she immediately regretted it. She felt like she was betraying Edward, knew that she didn't have the same intensity for Jacob as he did for her. That there was love there too. She could see a life with him but she wanted what she had with Edward more. In BD I didn't see that change much. Only when she would "light up". Like I said, Edward and Jacob both recognized that something was wrong with that reaction. I don't remember any example of anything like that occurring in any of the previous books. He was always a friend but almost like the big brother she always wanted. Not boyfriend material. If you saw an example somewhere, tell me. I honestly can't recall any. I don't think she had anything to flaunt and I don't think she encouraged anything other than her attempt to flirt in order to get info about the Cullens in Twilight. Edward was jealous of Mike Newton even though she never had any interest there. Same with Eric and Tyler. He was worried that Jacob and Bella's friendship could become something more. That she could leave him. He knew when he left, Jacob was there to pick up the pieces and it had left a mark on Bella. It seemed like Bella was always reassuring him otherwise. I don't think she ever gave him any reason not to trust her. I also don't think there was any pull to Jacob by Bella prior to BD. Alice wouldn't ever have seen Nessie coming. Her visions are triggered when she is looking for signs. She has to focus or be familiar with a human or vampire first. The visions change based on decisions and she can't see a future until a decision has been made. She couldn't have seen Bella and Jacob being drawn together because there was no decision made. Bella didn't disappear until Nessie existed and she decided to keep her. There couldn't have been any sign of a future imprint either. Bella can't imprint and Alice can't read Jacob. She can't read Nessie and the holes she created blocked Bella. So she couldn't see any future through Bella either. She didn't have any desire for kids until she was already pregnant. No decision there. They didn't even know children were possible and Nessie wasn't planned. I know it was explained that Alice had never been a wolf or vampire hybrid so that's why she couldn't see Jacob or Nessie. But, she had been both a human and a vampire, just not at the same time. It could have made as much sense as Alice to have be able to see one as for there to be one. Even though it ultimately didn't happen this way. Are these posts beginning to seem like a short novel or what? A whole other book on different theories and interpretations.
BellaMia
Settled in Forks
 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:58 am

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