pennybug84 wrote:I have to agree w/Corona on the previous conversation. Jacob is a manipulator. Just because he is immature (one of the reasons I don't like him) doesn't mean he can't manipulate Bella. I know someone who is immature & yet she is a very good manipulator. For me one of the biggest examples of this is the kiss in Eclipse. Jacob manipulates Bella into kissing him.
I agree totally that he is capable of manipulating Bella while being immature. But to manipulate him on the level required in this story as a whole? Not a chance.
There are certainly times in the story that he does manipulate (such as in the kiss), but that's not high level manipulation. Saying "I'm going to kill myself!" is pretty basic. But the rest of it is not. To have it as such a plan as you're suggesting here is just ridiculous. He would have to be pure evil for that, and there's no suggestion that is so. When not overwhelmed by jealousy he does do the right thing.
It's why Edward is always calling him on it. Bella doesn't see his manipulations for what they are. But EVERYONE around her does. Why he does it, ie immaturity, lashing out, overwhelmed by his emotions, whatever, doesn't make it any less manipulative.
Edward, as I recall, calls him out on it once. I don't recall anyone else saying at any point that they think Jacob is manipulating her. Alice is worried about her spending time with Jacob, but that's more because she can't see her when she's with Jacob. She also comments at the end that it's hard for Bella having to "choose between two good things". Do you honestly think she'd say that if she thought Jacob was masterfully manipulating her for nothing but selfish gain? No way!
When Angela mentions Jacob, she suggests that he is in love with Bella, not manipulating her, and I can't recall another mention. Charlie much prefers Jacob. There is no evidence in the books that everyone around her is warning her to stay away from Jacob.
It's interesting to note that most of the arguments you're using to prove that Jacob is manipulating Bella purely for selfish gain are exactly the same ones I've heard Team Jacob use to prove that Edward is manipulating Bella purely for selfish gain. Perhaps there is some middle ground where both teams can meet ....