Edward and Bella 2

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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Tornado » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:12 am

That's assuming that it was her idea, and I think it probably was, although there was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing with all the scripts (i.e. lots of people putting their two cents worth in), from what I've heard. So much gets changed on set, after a script is written. I must confess I'd be surprised if that scene got in on MR's authority alone, especially since SM was against it.

I've developed a habit of defending MR, mainly because I've heard her blamed for things in the Twilight movies that weren't originally in the scripts (like the "spider monkey" line). But the motorcycle scene was an extremely poor decision, and if it was hers I hope she's realised that.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:23 am

Tornado wrote:That's assuming that it was her idea, and I think it probably was, although there was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing with all the scripts (i.e. lots of people putting their two cents worth in), from what I've heard. So much gets changed on set, after a script is written. I must confess I'd be surprised if that scene got in on MR's authority alone, especially since SM was against it.

I've developed a habit of defending MR, mainly because I've heard her blamed for things in the Twilight movies that weren't originally in the scripts (like the "spider monkey" line). But the motorcycle scene was an extremely poor decision, and if it was hers I hope she's realised that.



This was actually one of the few times where SM broke ranks from Summitt and was very outspoken about the scene. She was absolutely opposed to it, as was DS from reports. But it was thought by the producers that it helped escalate the tension between Jacob and Edward and that's essentially what they wanted to do in Eclipse. The battle continued into the editing process. The original cut, which was part of the trailer aired during last year's MTV Movie Awards, was even worse. The producers thought by adding Bella's line, "Okay, we're going to talk about this, but..." before she starts talking to Jake made everything all peachy keen. That was the only concession SM was able to get. They adamantly insisted that it be included as written. MR's reasoning for including the scene was that she felt they needed to give Bella more backbone, show her standing up to Edward. Just one glaring example of her refusal to see the true nature of the characters she was given care over. And, no, she doesn't realize it. She's given interview after interview where she's declared it one of her favorite scenes because of the way it supposedly showcases what she sees as the central theme of the book. :banghead:
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Tornado » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:08 pm

Hm, do you have a link to any of those interviews? I haven't seen a quote like that, and I'd like to see it, if I could.

I knew that they'd added that line after the backlash at the MTV movie awards. I hadn't heard that about the producers, though. You would have thought they'd have more sense, but then, these are the people who hired DS to do a movie that's biggest selling point was NOT vampires, but romance. Of course, why not hire someone who has no experience at romance at all. What a sensible thing to do.

I've seen the script of Eclipse, and I could tell what MR was trying to achieve in this scene, because when Bella steps away from Edward at that point she's got the words "strong and independent". I always add another little word which I won't name, because no self respecting girl would ever go off with her lover's rival IN FRONT OF THEIR FRIENDS, for heaven's sake, and expect him to still be there when she comes back.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Jazz Girl » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:59 pm

Tornado wrote:Hm, do you have a link to any of those interviews? I haven't seen a quote like that, and I'd like to see it, if I could.

I knew that they'd added that line after the backlash at the MTV movie awards. I hadn't heard that about the producers, though. You would have thought they'd have more sense, but then, these are the people who hired DS to do a movie that's biggest selling point was NOT vampires, but romance. Of course, why not hire someone who has no experience at romance at all. What a sensible thing to do.

I've seen the script of Eclipse, and I could tell what MR was trying to achieve in this scene, because when Bella steps away from Edward at that point she's got the words "strong and independent". I always add another little word which I won't name, because no self respecting girl would ever go off with her lover's rival IN FRONT OF THEIR FRIENDS, for heaven's sake, and expect him to still be there when she comes back.



I'll see if I can find one. I know there were two where she specifically addressed that scene, one in print and one in video, both a week or so after the Eclipse premiere, when fans were frothing at the mouth over it. As for "that other word", feel free to add it. Even SM added it, or at least the slightly censored version of it, when talking about how she felt about the change in the scene. SM said point blank that that is not something BookBella would ever have done; turn her back on Edward and actively choose to follow Jacob. She could never have seen the look in his eyes and hurt him that way. It's also one of the very few points of contension I have with Kristen Stewart in that she openly defends Bella's choice to do that. It's the one time I can think of where her youth truly does, in my opinion, hamper her understanding of why fans were so outraged. It's been the one thing she ever said that I honestly could not defend in any way.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Tornado » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:24 pm

I think Kristen only defends it because she feels she had to. She had to find some motivation in her to play Bella doing it, although I thought it was interesting that she never got the final scene, where Bella says that it's not just about Edward, but that she thinks she belongs in the supernatural world. Even SM seemed okay with that one, as it isn't saying that it isn't about Edward, it's just not all about Edward, although even that contradicts the book.

That scene made me furious, but I think my reaciton was stronger because it was at the end of a movie which seemed to emasculate Edward. I don't think I would have had such a problem with Bella cutting herself to save Edward (she was prepared to do it in the book) if not for that same reason, it just seemed something else that made Edward look weak. A whole heap of little things seemed to bring him down in that movie, the motorcycle scene being the primary one.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Jazz Girl » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:29 pm

I don't know if I would use the word emasculated as much as I would say weakened, though that could be because of personal preference as opposed to anything else. But, that is another mark of MR, I'm afraid. She's said from the beginning (back during TwilightTuesdays) that they made a concerted effort to "humanize" Edward. There were small things in Twilight and New Moon. But, to me, Eclipse was where they were most notable. His reaction to the Great Dog Snog (still giggling over that, sorry) for one, the changes to the fight training scene and fight scene were two other major ones. Any one who's read the books knows it would be impossible for either Carlisle or Victoria to get the drop on Edward. His gift makes it impossible. It's the reason why he is the strongest fighter. But, in their quest for moments of levity, and to make Bella appear what they considered stronger (because apparently, just being willing to spill your blood to save your fiance isn't enough, you have to actually do it), they not only created contradictions within the film (which is enough to drive me mad), but also weakened Edward even more. It tends to drive me just a little nuts that they have managed to take who is essentially a wonderful literary character and just randomly toss out things that are central to who he is and think we wouldn't notice.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Tornado » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 am

Do we know if Carlisle sneaking up on Edward is in the script? It may have been added later. A lot of staging with fight stuff usually is. Most scripts just say "they fight". And on the DVD they said that a lot of the things in the fight with Victoria had to be restaged because the snow was so slippery, although that doesn't effect the bit with both Victoria and Riley attacking Edward. However, I made the point at another site that this is making Seth look weak (in that he was too weak to distract Riley sufficiently) more than Edward. Let's face it, no matter how good a fighter he is, it is unlikely he would have been able to stop both Victoria and Riley if they had attacked him together. The movie just demonstrates that, by making Seth too weak to keep up a sufficient fight with Riley. And Bella was willing to cut herself in the book. As I said, I wouldn't have cared if it hadn't been the latest in a long line of scenes where Edward was made to look weak. If it had just been that, it wouldn't have worried me.

And I think Edward is a tie with Jasper for being the strongest fighter. Neither of them could beat the other in their fight.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby suzzeeQ » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:57 am

I'm not going to lie, I love the motorcycle scene.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby Jazz Girl » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:38 pm

suzzeeQ wrote:I'm not going to lie, I love the motorcycle scene.



May I ask why? I'm very much interested in a different perspective on it, if you're willing?
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Postby corona » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:56 pm

The fight on the mountain; definitely one of my favorite book scenes. Utter, supreme, justified confidence.

I think I need a little cleansing excerpt:

"No,” Edward crooned, his voice seductive. “Stay just a little longer.”
She wheeled and flew toward the refuge of the forest like an arrow from a bow.
But Edward was faster — a bullet from a gun.


That, MR, is the real Edward.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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