Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edward#3

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Re: Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edwa

Postby 21Twilight21 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:40 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:I think a greater part of my issue with Jacob, honestly, is that I always hated that he is given a free pass because of his youth and inexperience. Yes, Edward has lived for 106 years (at the time of Eclipse's publishing), so, yes, he's lived longer, gained more insight and experience. But, he's experiencing these events, emotions, reactions, everything for the first time ever, just as Bella and Jacob are. He's essentially shut that part of himself off for 90 years, refusing to acknowledge it, trying to control the loneliness and the inadequacy that he felt because he felt as if he would be alone forever. And it was easier to just disconnect than to continue experiencing those feelings and wanting those feelings, particularly in the face of living with 3 sets of perfectly matched partners. So, when it comes to dealing with matters of the heart, opening yourself up to those emotions, learning to accept the realities of them, he is every bit as immature and impulsive as Jacob is, as Bella is. And yet, he's the only one who we expect that ,just because he's been alive longer, he magically knows all about how to communicate, how to relate in that kind of relationship, how to accept and address fears and threats and desires and needs in that context.

If anything, I always saw Edward at much more of a disadvantage than either Bella or Jacob, because he never learned how to work through those issues. We learn to be in a relationship by observing the relationships around us; our parents, family members, friends. We learn through trial and error in our early relationships. But, Edward didn't get to do any of that. His human memories are lost through the transformation. So any insight he might have had from his parents or family is gone. When he was turned, we know that he hadn't yet experienced those early attempts at a relationship. But, even if he had, again, those memories are gone. Within his vampire family, he's only ever seen three pairs of mated vampires. The emotions are crystalline, intense and unquestionable. From what we see, once a vampire chooses a mate, that relationship is unchallenged and immediate. So he never witnessed any of his brothers have to deal with questioning whether or not they were the right one for their partner. He never saw his mother or sisters question whether their partner was the right man for them. We can assume that, because there is friction in every relationship, there were disagreements and fights. But, also, given what we know of the 6 vampires in question, I'm willing to bet that none of them pushed each other, challenged one another the way Bella does Edward. So, why is it that we just expect Edward to magically know how to communicate with Bella, how to turn off his instincts and give over control to her?


I completely agree with you! Everyone says that Edward has lived for over a century so he should understand it all, but this is the first time he's experiencing all of this too! He is trying to figure everything out and it's not fair to use his age as an excuse, just like I believe it's not fair that everyone blames Jacob's actions on his age!

That is another beautiful point that you made about Edward lol! He has never been able to witness a relationship from the start throughout the whole thing! The only true love he has ever witnessed were between vampires who mate for life! People may say that he has witnessed love between many people over the years of his life, but teenagers mostly experience lust not love! Edward is at a big disadvantage because people expect him to know everything and to do everything correctly!
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Re: Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edwa

Postby Jazz Girl » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:07 am

Tornado wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:Just because Jacob's manipulations are obvious to anyone not blinded by their own guilt doesn't raise them to the level of evil. It just makes them exactly that, obvious. Charlie sees it, but because he's essentially rooting for Jake, he accepts it, sees it as just a part of Jacob making his play for Bella. As you said, Angela sees it. Mike Newton, Ben Cheney, Tyler Crowley, Alice, Rosalie. What he's doing is pretty obvious to everyone except Bella because his motives are lost on her. In her head, he doesn't have a chance, so why would he keep trying. It's part of the reason that she never calls him on it.


If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying everyone is recognising Jacob as a manipulator? I disagree with that. As you say, Charlie sees Jake making a play for Bella, but that doesn't mean that he sees manipulation going on. And although Angela sees that Jake loves her, neither she nor the other school kids have seen enough of Jacob to see much of his interaction with Bella. The Cullens probably see it, yes, but they don't discuss it with her anywhere.

Bella does know he's still trying to win her, but not that he's manipulating her. Is that what you are trying to say?


Jacob's manipulation is his play for Bella. It's how he is trying to win her, how he is trying to force her to admit her feelings, how he is trying to get her to choose him over Edward. That is why everyone sees it, acknowledges it in some way, but also accept it so readily. Because, over and over, how he manipulates her and the manipulative actions he takes is written off as just him fighting for her.

Tornado wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:I completely accept that Bella loves Jacob. I just don't accept it as an excuse for his behavior. She may have loved him. But, she was also bluntly honest and completely adamant that she loves Edward more and that she only ever wants a future with Edward. It is his refusal to accept that, to continue to manipulate her and push every boundary she (admittedly very weakly) tried to set that raises my ire and my objections.


But the reason he is pushing is because she is denying that she loves him. He can't help but think that, if she does know, it might change her mind and she will leave Edward for him. Once she admits that she loves him and still chooses Edward he knows he hasn't got anywhere else to go, and says that he is going to be "good", although he does make sure that he leaves the avenue open. And I think that he does try to be good. Like your typical teenager, he doesn't do a stellar job, but he tries.


How many times does Bella have to say, "I want Edward. He is what I want and nothing is going to change that" before people finally listen to her? At some point, if Jacob truly loves her as he claims, than he has to respect her choice, which is, to put it bluntly, something I don't believe he ever does. The only time he ever shows any acceptance of her choice is after he imprints on her daughter, and even then, he is insufferable, insulting and shows way too much entitlement towards Edward&Bella's daughter. Teenager or not, his behavior at the wedding was inexcuseable and saying that "he's trying" just doesn't cut it for me. I'm sorry, but there is nothing on this Earth that snaps my teeth together faster than someone believing that they have the right to force their wishes on another person's life. It doesn't matter to me if he believes she's denying her feelings. It doesn't really matter to me if he thinks she'll change her mind, "if only she admits it". I'll give him one opportunity to plead his case, one time where she says, "I want Edward," and he can say, "yes, but...". But that's it. Every time after that, he's being disrespectful and selfish.

Tornado wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:I think a greater part of my issue with Jacob, honestly, is that I always hated that he is given a free pass because of his youth and inexperience.


But do you believe that just because he behaves that way? Just because SM allows this kind of behaviour in Jacob doesn't mean she's saying it's okay for him to behave like this. This is just Jake, in all his faulty glory. This is just the way he is. It makes him unattractive in a lot of ways, just as Rosalie's selfishness makes her unattractive. It's what makes it so easy for me to say that I'm not Team Jacob, or even Team Switzerland - at least, until he has grown up a bit and learned some manners.


No. I believe it because he is given a free pass. He is never really made to answer for his behavior, whether in the environment of the novels by the other characters, by SM in her discussions on the novels, or by the wider audience. Whenever I see Jacob's behavior discussed, the dynamics analyzed, EVERY argument ALWAYS includes, "but we can't forget that poor Jacob is a teenager, young, rash, impulsive and immature and of course we can't expect him to know better or behave better or react better." I believe we can and we should. I am never a fan of examining what happens in The Saga in the context of the real world, but Jacob's behaviors are a little easier to pull out and do so. If my teenaged son ever pulled half the crap Jacob pulls (insulting people and refusing to apologize for it, refusing to accept the choices of his friends, forcing a kiss on an unwilling person), I'd likely end up tanning his hide and grounding him for months. If Jacob wants to assume the mantle of an adult role (protector, lover, savior), than we should expect him to do so in at least somewhat of a mature fashion.
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Re: Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edwa

Postby Tornado » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:26 am

Jazz Girl wrote:Jacob's manipulation is his play for Bella. It's how he is trying to win her, how he is trying to force her to admit her feelings, how he is trying to get her to choose him over Edward. That is why everyone sees it, acknowledges it in some way, but also accept it so readily. Because, over and over, how he manipulates her and the manipulative actions he takes is written off as just him fighting for her.


I disagree. You can make a play for someone without manipulating them. He chooses to use manipulation within that play, certainly, but I disagree that the play itself is manipulation. He does genuinely care for her. If the play itself was manipulation, then his feelings for her would be false.


Jazz Girl wrote:How many times does Bella have to say, "I want Edward. He is what I want and nothing is going to change that" before people finally listen to her? At some point, if Jacob truly loves her as he claims, than he has to respect her choice, which is, to put it bluntly, something I don't believe he ever does. The only time he ever shows any acceptance of her choice is after he imprints on her daughter, and even then, he is insufferable, insulting and shows way too much entitlement towards Edward&Bella's daughter. Teenager or not, his behavior at the wedding was inexcuseable and saying that "he's trying" just doesn't cut it for me. I'm sorry, but there is nothing on this Earth that snaps my teeth together faster than someone believing that they have the right to force their wishes on another person's life. It doesn't matter to me if he believes she's denying her feelings. It doesn't really matter to me if he thinks she'll change her mind, "if only she admits it". I'll give him one opportunity to plead his case, one time where she says, "I want Edward," and he can say, "yes, but...". But that's it. Every time after that, he's being disrespectful and selfish.


But that she find out that she does love him is an important part of her development. Could he have done it differently? Absolutely. Did he overstep the mark? Definitely. But I believe he does try to respect her choice, which he expresses in his desire to "be good". However, I agree that he doesn't have much success in it. I do believe that he does try, though.


Jazz Girl wrote:No. I believe it because he is given a free pass. He is never really made to answer for his behavior, whether in the environment of the novels by the other characters, by SM in her discussions on the novels, or by the wider audience. Whenever I see Jacob's behavior discussed, the dynamics analyzed, EVERY argument ALWAYS includes, "but we can't forget that poor Jacob is a teenager, young, rash, impulsive and immature and of course we can't expect him to know better or behave better or react better." I believe we can and we should. I am never a fan of examining what happens in The Saga in the context of the real world, but Jacob's behaviors are a little easier to pull out and do so. If my teenaged son ever pulled half the crap Jacob pulls (insulting people and refusing to apologize for it, refusing to accept the choices of his friends, forcing a kiss on an unwilling person), I'd likely end up tanning his hide and grounding him for months. If Jacob wants to assume the mantle of an adult role (protector, lover, savior), than we should expect him to do so in at least somewhat of a mature fashion.


I don't believe the novels themselves give him a free pass. They simply tell us what he did, without saying that it was perfectly fine for him to do this. This is a point of contention for me, as well, which is why I'm hoping SM may pick up the story at at later stage and cover Renesmee's future, at which point, somewhere, I'm really hoping that Jake and Edward will sit down and Jacob will tell him how much he misjudged Edward. I've said elsewhere on this forum (not sure in which post!) that Jacob's character is unresolved for me until this happens. I cannot like him until I see this expressed. I believe he is essentially a good kid, but that doesn't excuse what he did. The ends never justify the means.

I agree that it is no excuse that he is a teenager. He is a good person, and he should have been able to think beyond the intensity of his feelings. For me, it shows just how self focussed and narrow minded he is that he doesn't recognise his huge stuff ups. I do not blame SM for this, though, at least, as far as the writing of the novels go. She was just expressing his character as it was to her (characters can become so real to writers that they simply cannot make them do certain things, or not do certain things. I have experienced this myself in my writing). You can't stop a story in the middle to say, "Of course, this is not a great thing to do, you know, it's just that he did it, so I'm telling you."

I do believe, however, that no fan or SM herself should say that what Jake did was fine or even excusable just because he was young. This is another reason I hope we have more of Jake, because I think underneath it all he is nice, and I want to witness him recognising that he too, can make massive mistakes in his judgement, and did so in this case. He needs to be able to admit that he was wrong about Edward and the Cullens. He never admits he is wrong about anything at all in the course of any of the books at any stage, and he's wrong quite a few times. Whether his motives were pure or not is irrelevant. His behaviour was completely unacceptable, and he needs to apologise for going too far. And I want it spoken. If he's the man I think he is inside, he'll know that just thinking it at Edward is not good enough.
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Re: Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edwa

Postby 21Twilight21 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:00 pm

There has been a lot of great points about the books and characters made by all of you posting! I would post my opinion on things, but I would just be repeating a lot of what's been said since I agree with most of what's been said lol!

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Re: Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edwa

Postby Jazz Girl » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:52 pm

Tornado wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:Jacob's manipulation is his play for Bella. It's how he is trying to win her, how he is trying to force her to admit her feelings, how he is trying to get her to choose him over Edward. That is why everyone sees it, acknowledges it in some way, but also accept it so readily. Because, over and over, how he manipulates her and the manipulative actions he takes is written off as just him fighting for her.


I disagree. You can make a play for someone without manipulating them. He chooses to use manipulation within that play, certainly, but I disagree that the play itself is manipulation. He does genuinely care for her. If the play itself was manipulation, then his feelings for her would be false.


Yes, you can. But, I don't believe Jacob does. Everything he attempts to do to "reveal" Bella's feelings for him is a manipulation in one form or another. From his words completely intended to play on every ounce of her guilt, to his confrontations with Edward where he intentionally does everything he can to goad Edward, to everything that leads up to the disgusting display on the mountain top. Even after Edward&Bella are married, he's still playing on every fear and insecurity both of them have. I don't think it means his feelings are false, just that they are not as strong as he perceives them to be. I honestly don't believe Jacob truly loved Bella in the true love sense of the word. I think Jacob loved Bella in the way you love the idea of someone, the way you know you are supposed to love another person and you want it to be a certain person. I think he definitely could have truly loved her, but he never got the chance. His feelings never really got the chance to develop beyond that initial infatuation stage because of the circumstances under which they developed. I don't argue the assertion that, in a world without the supernatural, they were what was supposed to happen. In a "normal" world, they would have had a chance to truly get to know one another, bond with each other, love each other. But, that never happened because of the supernatural forces. So, Jacob is left with this initial attraction that he knows is supposed to grow, but in stead is forced to let go of because of Edward, who he hates. He reacts the only way he can see as having a chance; playing on her guilt and insecurity to try and come between her and Edward using less than honest means.


Tornado wrote:I do believe, however, that no fan or SM herself should say that what Jake did was fine or even excusable just because he was young. This is another reason I hope we have more of Jake, because I think underneath it all he is nice, and I want to witness him recognising that he too, can make massive mistakes in his judgement, and did so in this case. He needs to be able to admit that he was wrong about Edward and the Cullens. He never admits he is wrong about anything at all in the course of any of the books at any stage, and he's wrong quite a few times. Whether his motives were pure or not is irrelevant. His behaviour was completely unacceptable, and he needs to apologise for going too far. And I want it spoken. If he's the man I think he is inside, he'll know that just thinking it at Edward is not good enough.


Honestly, if I had a nickel for the number of times I have heard that statement... well, I'd have a lot more money in my retirement fund, that's for sure. Just about every person I've ever spoken with who is the least bit sympathetic towards Jacob's actions has used some variation of the phrase, "too young to know any better," in their defense of him. Jacob cannot escape his youth any more than Edward can escape his age. Would I like to see Jacob stand up and redeem himself? Absolutely. I think that that is, in part, a reason why most people were, at the very least, disappointed in the imprinting story line. It goes right back to Jacob getting his own happily-ever-after without having to earn it. He never once has to stand up and say, "I'm sorry. I was wrong. I know better now." I suppose the major difference between us is that I don't assume his redemption just hasn't been written yet. Well, that and I guess I hold a bit of a bigger grudge. ;)
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Re: Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edwa

Postby Tornado » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:32 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:Yes, you can. But, I don't believe Jacob does. Everything he attempts to do to "reveal" Bella's feelings for him is a manipulation in one form or another. From his words completely intended to play on every ounce of her guilt, to his confrontations with Edward where he intentionally does everything he can to goad Edward, to everything that leads up to the disgusting display on the mountain top. Even after Edward&Bella are married, he's still playing on every fear and insecurity both of them have.


Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I give Jacob credit for at least being reasonable underneath, and going through some hard stuff (it can't be easy to suddenly find out you're a monster). I can see love for Bella in the reasons behind his actions, even though these actions were highly inappropriate.

Jazz Girl wrote:I don't think it means his feelings are false, just that they are not as strong as he perceives them to be. I honestly don't believe Jacob truly loved Bella in the true love sense of the word. I think Jacob loved Bella in the way you love the idea of someone, the way you know you are supposed to love another person and you want it to be a certain person. I think he definitely could have truly loved her, but he never got the chance. His feelings never really got the chance to develop beyond that initial infatuation stage because of the circumstances under which they developed. I don't argue the assertion that, in a world without the supernatural, they were what was supposed to happen. In a "normal" world, they would have had a chance to truly get to know one another, bond with each other, love each other. But, that never happened because of the supernatural forces. So, Jacob is left with this initial attraction that he knows is supposed to grow, but in stead is forced to let go of because of Edward, who he hates. He reacts the only way he can see as having a chance; playing on her guilt and insecurity to try and come between her and Edward using less than honest means.[/color]


I think his feelings are a little stronger than an adolescent crush. There's no doubt in my mind that they are strong enough that he could have had a relationship with Bella. My point of contention with Team Jacob fans who want him to end up with Bella (and possibly with SM herself over this one) is the fact that I believe that they are completely unsuited for each other as far as personality goes. She's an anal-retentive, pseudo-intellectual, book reading type. He's the impulsive, totally creative, build-things-with-my-bare-hands type. Complete opposites. Can opposites attract? Absolutely. Can they have successful long term relationships? Yes they can, but it's much, much harder to sustain long term. When Jacob says that he's exactly right for her, and that he is the natural path her life would have taken, I think to myself, "Sorry, no. I don't see that." I think their relationship could have been successful long term, but with their differences in personality, I don't think it would have been anywhere near as easy as he thinks it would have been. I was even a little worried about him and Renesmee having enough in common, but if she's inherited her dad's liking of cars, then that at least gives them something to do together that they both enjoy.

Jazz Girl wrote:Honestly, if I had a nickel for the number of times I have heard that statement... well, I'd have a lot more money in my retirement fund, that's for sure. Just about every person I've ever spoken with who is the least bit sympathetic towards Jacob's actions has used some variation of the phrase, "too young to know any better," in their defense of him. Jacob cannot escape his youth any more than Edward can escape his age. Would I like to see Jacob stand up and redeem himself? Absolutely. I think that that is, in part, a reason why most people were, at the very least, disappointed in the imprinting story line. It goes right back to Jacob getting his own happily-ever-after without having to earn it. He never once has to stand up and say, "I'm sorry. I was wrong. I know better now." I suppose the major difference between us is that I don't assume his redemption just hasn't been written yet. Well, that and I guess I hold a bit of a bigger grudge. ;)


I think his behaviour towards Edward post-imprint shows that his opinion of him has changed. And it is clear in book 2 in BD that he is considering the Cullens in a different light. It doesn't take that much to see that his opinion of them (with the exception of Rosalie!) has changed by the end of BD. So I think the grudge thing might hold a bit of weight here. ;) I always try and see things from other people's point of view, so I've tried to put myself in Jacob's place, and I can see some kind of change. I just want it articulated before I can be fully reconciled to him.
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Re: Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edwa

Postby corona » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:02 pm

Tornado wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:Honestly, if I had a nickel for the number of times I have heard that statement... well, I'd have a lot more money in my retirement fund, that's for sure. Just about every person I've ever spoken with who is the least bit sympathetic towards Jacob's actions has used some variation of the phrase, "too young to know any better," in their defense of him. Jacob cannot escape his youth any more than Edward can escape his age. Would I like to see Jacob stand up and redeem himself? Absolutely. I think that that is, in part, a reason why most people were, at the very least, disappointed in the imprinting story line. It goes right back to Jacob getting his own happily-ever-after without having to earn it. He never once has to stand up and say, "I'm sorry. I was wrong. I know better now." I suppose the major difference between us is that I don't assume his redemption just hasn't been written yet. Well, that and I guess I hold a bit of a bigger grudge. ;)


I think his behaviour towards Edward post-imprint shows that his opinion of him has changed. And it is clear in book 2 in BD that he is considering the Cullens in a different light. It doesn't take that much to see that his opinion of them (with the exception of Rosalie!) has changed by the end of BD. So I think the grudge thing might hold a bit of weight here. ;) I always try and see things from other people's point of view, so I've tried to put myself in Jacob's place, and I can see some kind of change. I just want it articulated before I can be fully reconciled to him.


I think we can all agree on that. Some acknowledgement by Jacob that he went too far in the past would have done wonders for my attitude towards him. But, it didn't happen. His care-free nature returns after Nessie, but his self-absorption is still there, albeit easier to deal with since he isn't haranguing Bella anymore.

I have to admit that a lot of my anger with Jacob comes from my former anger with Edward. I'm on Team Edward specifically because he was forced to face the damage that he caused by leaving. He took it like a man, absorbed it, and dealt with it. I held his feet to the fire, and Jacob provided the final piece at that schoolyard scene when he showed Edward the memory of Bella being carried from the forest by Sam. That is the precise moment when I fully forgave Edward. I didn't have long to savor that moment, however, because Jacob's attitude was so disgusting. My Edward checklist was all crossed off, and then Jacob made me open up a new one for him. And everything I put on that checklist was unanswered for.

Flash forward to the tent scene. Something that doesn't get a lot of mention, but Jacob contemplates something much worse than his actual kiss manipulation. He asks Edward to basically recreate New Moon, to try forcing Bella into option 1 again. He tortures Edward with memories of a catatonic and then heartbroken Bella, but then asks him to do it again, you know, for Bella's sake. All he was asking for was one year, just one year, after Edward shattered her heart a second time. Sure, she's stubborn, but it's worth a shot, no?
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edwa

Postby Tornado » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:53 pm

corona wrote:
Flash forward to the tent scene. Something that doesn't get a lot of mention, but Jacob contemplates something much worse than his actual kiss manipulation. He asks Edward to basically recreate New Moon, to try forcing Bella into option 1 again. He tortures Edward with memories of a catatonic and then heartbroken Bella, but then asks him to do it again, you know, for Bella's sake. All he was asking for was one year, just one year, after Edward shattered her heart a second time. Sure, she's stubborn, but it's worth a shot, no?


There is certainly an argument for that, but it is Bella's life as a human that is being discussed here. Remember, at this stage, there was no idea that Renesmee was even a possibility, so in accepting Edward, Bella was also being denied the opportunity to have children, as well as a normal life, etc. Even Edward considered that staying with Jake might be better for Bella.

So while Jacob's suggestion here is certainly not disinterested, there is a thought for both of them that it might be better for Bella long term if it is that way. Of course, Edward still wants it to be her choice, not his or Jacob's and all Jacob can remember is that it was a happy time for him - when he and Bella were together. Bella's pain lessened, and I honestly don't think he ever grasped just how much pain she continued to be in. He thinks she can get over it, and as he remembers that time as mostly happy, it's probably not unrealistic that he thinks she will too ... eventually.

And, of course, it is something that he wants, and thinks is right, so he fights for it because that means it's right for everybody. :roll:
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Re: Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edwa

Postby 21Twilight21 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:00 pm

corona wrote:Flash forward to the tent scene. Something that doesn't get a lot of mention, but Jacob contemplates something much worse than his actual kiss manipulation. He asks Edward to basically recreate New Moon, to try forcing Bella into option 1 again. He tortures Edward with memories of a catatonic and then heartbroken Bella, but then asks him to do it again, you know, for Bella's sake. All he was asking for was one year, just one year, after Edward shattered her heart a second time. Sure, she's stubborn, but it's worth a shot, no?


That is a very good point! Most people don't pay attention to what Jacob was trying to do! Jacob tried to make it seem like after Edward crushed Bella's heart again by leaving, she would be happier with her life! Yes maybe eventually she would've moved past that pain like she was doing the first time, but no one could know for sure that she would be able to handle the second round the way she began to the first time! Jacob was asking for Edward to sacrifice his happiness and to break his promise by hurting Bella once again, so he could have more time to try to force someone to love him! Jacob claimed to be doing what was best for Bella, but he was looking out for himself!

Tornado wrote:So while Jacob's suggestion here is certainly not disinterested, there is a thought for both of them that it might be better for Bella long term if it is that way. Of course, Edward still wants it to be her choice, not his or Jacob's and all Jacob can remember is that it was a happy time for him - when he and Bella were together. Bella's pain lessened, and I honestly don't think he ever grasped just how much pain she continued to be in. He thinks she can get over it, and as he remembers that time as mostly happy, it's probably not unrealistic that he thinks she will too ... eventually.


Yes it might be true that in the long run Bella's life would've been a lot normal and "better" without Edward because she could do all the normal things that her friends and family have/will experience, but Bella was never completely happy without Edward! No matter what she would be giving up or having to deal with, she knew it would be worth it to be with Edward! I agree with you that Jacob didn't understand the pain Bella was in without Edward even during the time he helped her "be happy"! He didn't really know how Bella was truly feeling and how things would've worked out! He only seen and believe what he wanted to!
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Re: Edward Cullen bringing sexy back since 1901 -- Team Edwa

Postby Tornado » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:04 pm

Yes, when it's what we want, we tend to see everything as rosy, and the alternatives as the things that will result in the most misery.
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