Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby Emmettroselover » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:53 am

Tornado wrote: I was glad they toned him down a bit in the movies. He was just so annoying in the books!


I have mixed feelings about them toning him down. They made him more likable, but they did not stay true to his character in a lot of ways. Jacob was arrogant, impulsive, and angry at times. He did shake a lot and make Bella think twice about being so close to him when that happened. He was intimidating. It was part of who he was and what made her decipher between her Jacob and the bitter wolf he became. I think they toned it down to make him more appealing, but in doing so they did not help Bella and Edward at all. Edward comes off as so overprotective and for no reason besides jealousy. Like the truck scene at the beginning of Eclipse in the film, in the book we were able to understand that wolves can be dangerous. Emily had the scars to prove it and young wolves did have issues controlling their temper. Edward was not willing to take that risk so while his actions were annoying, there was also humor about it in the book, especially when she slams her window then opens it again. By taking stuff like that out, they really left it open for different interpretation. If Jacob was the way they downplayed him in the film, I think it would be easier to love him in the books because you get the good sides of Jacob in the film, but rarely any of the things that make you want to use that crowbar like his words and reaction along with Charlie's after Jacob forcefully kissed her. That was definitely MR's feminist side coming out with the alteration of that scene. It made me relieved that she changed a lot about Charlie but also like she made him a different character in a lot of ways.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby Tornado » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:55 am

Yes, it's one of the things that shows the difference between the way he feels about Bella and the way he feels about Renesmee. Because of the way he feels about her, he'd do anything for Renesmee, but there were limits to what he'd do for Bella, especially when it came to what she wanted, if he felt it was wrong for her. With Renesmee he would (as Edward would with Bella much of the time) give in, and accept what she wants, but with Bella, it was HIS way that was the right way, regardless of her feelings.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby Emmettroselover » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:03 am

That's a good way of putting it. I did feel he was a bit obsessed with Renesmee though. When I read about Quil's imprint I did not feel as though he needed to be around her constantly or he would not survive. It was more like he was always there when she needed him. Jacob tried to make a lot of decisions for Renesmee and while I understood why at times, it was annoying that he felt like he knew better than her parents did and as if he needed to be part of the discussion when in reality, he was not the parent at all and did not have to be treated that way. He truly did love Renesmee but yet again I felt he was over the top with it at times.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby Tornado » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:34 am

Yes, it didn't help that he's not exactly a subtle presence, did it? He's always very noticeable!
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby Emmettroselover » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:25 am

I think I will always have mixed feelings about Jacob. If anything, he makes me feel bipolar. I thought he was sweet in Twilight and New Moon, arrogant and manipulative in Eclipse, and just a pest in Breaking Dawn. He had my emotions all over the place and is really the only character that left me not knowing how to feel. It felt so odd that after going through so much with the triangle....he ended up imprinting on the child of the couple he tried to keep apart. It was just hard to wrap my mind around and I think that just made the love triangle even less important to me in the long run. It was kind of a moment of wondering why I went through all those emotions while reading it only for him to imprint on a baby anyways. No matter how many times I have tried to accept it as alright and not creepy, I just cannot seem to do it. His behavior after he imprinted did not help things though. Worst line he could have possibly said IMO..."I can share." Eek!
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby Tornado » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:31 am

There are heaps of people who have a problem with that line! It never even occurred to me that it was a problem when I read it! I was really surprised when everyone around me started talking about it. I thought it was just Jake being his usual flippant, less-than-tactful self.

Yes, I really liked Jake in both Twilight and New Moon. Then he turned into a monster! That's why I feel he is an unreconciled character, and I really wish SM would finish off his story. I think he really is a nice guy under all that bravado and arrogance, and I'd like to see the return of the kid who listened to other people, rather than the guy who thinks he's right about everything.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby Emmettroselover » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:56 am

That line always creeps me out. You share something that you feel you possess. Renesmee will never be his possession, ever, and no amount of imprinting will change that. Plus, he is telling this to her parents. It was just too much even for Jacob and his lack of tact. The imprinting was already disturbing and I had to put the book down for a moment when I got to that line. I also did not like how the characters usually did the Jacob will be Jacob type of thing when it came to his behavior. They just dismissed it as him being him, but that is like a boys will be boys mentality and I am not fond of that as well. Just because he is Jacob does not mean he gets to be disrespectful, arrogant, crude, and insult people. I did not enjoy being in his head at all.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby RebeccaCullen » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:22 pm

One of this things I have a hard time buying about the "triangle" is that SM always intended for Jacob to imprint on Renesmee from the time she introduced him, and if that's the case, she knew that when she had Edward leave, and then said in interviews that Bella fell for Jacob.

Another thing that is giving me a hard time buying it would be how Bella was in NM. After Edward left her, she became a zombie and basically used Jacob to be near Edward, and eventually ran off to Italy to save Edward's life even though she thought he didn't want her. That right there, her going off to Italy, spoke volumes to me because Jacob begged her to stay in Forks with him and she chose to go save Edward. I have a hard time believing that she fell for Jacob when she so easily went off to Italy for Edward. And since some Jacob fan's like to say Edward left Bella in the woods, which was only in the movie that he did it, I say this: Bella told Jacob along the lines of "it's always going to be him [Edward]" when he asked her to stay.

Not to shift the topic or anything, but when Jacob says he'll share and telling Charlie about the shapeshifters to force the Cullen's to stay in Forks was just plain mean and rather rude of him. Even after imprinting, he still only cares about himself, and nobody else. I would think that imprinting on Renesmee would have force him to think of, and consider the needs of his imprintee rather than his own needs, because by forcing the family to say and not truly allowing her parents to raise her the way they want to, isn't thinking of what's best for Renesmee, it's what's best for Jacob. Too many questions will start to arise when the Cullen's don't age when they go out, or when they aren't seen or heard leaving Forks after a few years, or when people see Renesmee aging faster than she should.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby Tornado » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:10 pm

RebeccaCullen wrote: I have a hard time believing that she fell for Jacob when she so easily went off to Italy for Edward.


Really? You see, I think she would have done the same thing if it was Jacob in Italy, regardless of whether or not she loved him as much as she loves Edward. I think she would have done the same thing for any one of the Cullens or whoever, especially if she knew that they went because of what she thought was guilt over not saving her. She's that kind of person.
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Re: Love Triangle-Bella, Edward, Jacob

Postby RebeccaCullen » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:33 am

I don't doubt Bella would've done the same for Jacob after their screwed up friendship happened because I do think Bella cared for him on some level, otherwise she wouldn't have felt guilty and tried to continue their messed up relationship until it was too late and everyone was getting hurt because of it. But at the same time, when she and Alice were about to take off Jacob asked her to stay and she really didn't consider it from what I can remember. It`s been a while since I`ve read the books and I honestly don`t feel like going to my room to grab my copy of NM, so you can correct me if I`m wrong. The only thing I can recall clearly is the part in the movie when Alice and Bella are about to drive off and Bella tells Jacob that it`s always going to be Edward when he asks her to stay. If she fell for him, like SM is trying to make me believe, IMO, Bella would have seriously considered staying in Forks because as far as I'm concerned, she was lead to believe that he didn't love her any more.

I think Bella cared for Jacob and loved him like he was her brother (which was how I read their entire relationship in NM), but her entire relationship, IMO, was based on her need for Edward. It was only in EC that she felt guilty for using him, and it was that guilt that, I think, caused her to continue her messed up friendship with him until he was hurt in the fight with the newborns and she was forced to realize that she couldn`t have both Edward and Jacob.
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