The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Discussion of the Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn 1

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Re: The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Postby Tornado » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:15 pm

Jake definitely has an impulsive side to his personality, absolutely. But even with that, the idea that he could take down half the Cullens is a bit extreme. I think that's where the grief comes into play. It takes his usual impulsiveness and raises it to the power of ten (not that it needs much help!).

I found it really difficult to read book two of BD because it was from Jake's POV, and he is so bitter and resentful at this point. This is what makes me hope (and it's not entirely a vain hope) that we will get something from FD in that section of the BD movie, hopefully showing how much Bella and Edward care about each other in the midst of them disagreeing over the pregnancy.
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Re: The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Postby Emmettroselover » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:06 pm

You just said everything I was thinking. It was not just that Jacob was suddenly stricken with grief and acted completely out of character. He was always impulsive and could cross lines, so adding that agony just made him a very dangerous character at that point. That is why I was so interested in what SM would do. Jake straddled the line of good and bad guy quite often. It would not have taken much to make his character flaws even worse and reading from his POV just added to my annoyance with him. The ignorance, the hatred, the bitterness, it was like at some point when does the character grow up? IMO he never did.

I hoped that after Renesmee was born and he imprinted.....even though the idea did not appeal to me.....he would become a bit humble and learn some respect for those around him, but that did not happen. Jacob still wanted to have it his way. He wanted to tell her parents how they should behave around her, what they could and could not do with her, and that just baffled me because it became more of a Jacob is just being Jacob thing. No one else in that book got to act that ridiculous and not get called out on it. Even when they would scold him, he was still indifferent half the time like he didn't care about the consequences of what he did. The only thing that made a bit of sense to me is something my mother and I were discussing. Vampires live so long and have such a level of maturity and understanding about the world that maybe they did not see the need to confront him on his actions at times. There were times when he almost crossed lines and got too impulsive.....I love how Jasper always had an eye on him and how he spoke to Alice....but the witnesses and other vampires just seemed to dismiss his immaturity. Maybe when you live that long you learn to let that stuff go because I know taking that kind of high road would not be something I could do when it is such a constant issue. Jacob was never a subtle guy and he made it clear he was only sticking around for Bella and Renesmee.
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Re: The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Postby Tornado » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:34 pm

I think Jake did grow up a bit (and I stress the word "bit" here!) in book three. Yes, he does get in the way when Bella first meets Renesmee, but he doesn't even try and protect himself when Bella goes for him. Why is that? Because he can't bring himself to fight her? Because he recognises that she has a right to feel the way she does? Perhaps. And it's clear that his view of Edward has changed. He talks to Edward far more acceptably, and actually calls him by his name. He is willing to stay away (albeit reluctantly) if it is necessary when their "guests" start arriving, although these problems don't eventuate. And he could have kicked up a considerable fuss over non-vegetarian vampires hanging around. Let's face it: he is what he is in order to kill their kind, so not killing them, or even being rude to them (and there's no evidence that he was, to their faces, anyway) was a big step forward in self control for him.

So I think there are positive signs that he is changing, and he certainly has time to. This is where I grow frustrated, because, as I've said before, I would like to see these changes. I'm sure he will always have some of his impulsive recklessness, but if it's toned down with a bit of reason and humility, then these can become strengths rather than weaknesses. Hopefully, if he takes Edward as a role model, which he might, he could learn to achieve these things.
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Re: The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Postby Emmettroselover » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:17 am

I think he grew up a tiny bit but no where near as much as Edward and Bella did. There were true signs of character development with them. Bella's growth was of course the most prominent because we were in her POV. I want Midnight Sun so badly!!!!!!!!!
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Re: The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Postby Jacobs-girl » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:47 am

Emmettroselover wrote:I understood Edward's reaction because not only was it never supposed to be a possibility, but he did not think it would be a baby. It is not like Edward just thought they would be able to have a child that was able to learn and love. He thought it would be the terrifying immortal child that the vampire world had learned to fear. Plus, he felt responsible. Edward always wants to shoulder every burden and when he realized she was pregnant, he was broken because he thought of every possibilities and precaution only to realize there was a possibility he did not even consider.

I know that in books like these with so many supernatural elements it is easy to get desensitized to the severity of what is happening but if you take a step back to think about it, it would be a very horrific situation to have a creature inside the one you love and think it will not only kill her, but also many others if not eliminated. I think Edward was in a no win situation until he realized the baby was able to learn morals and values. If Jacob can think Bella being turned into a vampire is horrific and say he rather she was dead, plus actually go in search of the baby and want to kill her even though in both cases it is done with blind hatred instead of objective thinking, why is it hard to believe that Edward would be devastated and want to save Bella from something that he believes is based on the cases of the immortal children?


I think you might have misunderstood me slightly. I don't find it hard to believe Edward's devastated reaction. What I meant is that when they are on Isle Esme and Bella discovers her pregnancy, I kept getting a sense that Bella felt alone with it. I understand that Edward is obviously very concerned about the whole situation and he goes into a state of shock but Bella is in shock too: "the strange, silent tears started streaming down my cheeks" (BD, ch. 7, p. 115, softback edition). Not only is she just 18 years old and is already married and pregnant, but she's not carrying an ordinary baby...I just felt that Edward should have supported Bella more in this scene when they find out she's pregnant instead of being "manic" and "icy" (ch. 7, p. 118).

Sure, I can understand that he wants to get Bella home to Forks ASAP and of course he wants to save her from a horrific possibility, but in that particular scene in chapter 7 he doesn't seem to understand that by his reaction, he is frightening Bella: "[he] honestly frightened me a little" (ch. 7, p.118). And I really think that Bella needed support then, despite the awful possibilities lying ahead.
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Re: The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Postby Emmettroselover » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:27 am

But Edward is not perfect. It would not be realistic for him to suppress everything he is feeling which was extremely overwhelming and show the "support" that you have in mind. Plus, you have to keep in mind we are not getting an objective POV of what happened and how they both reacted. Bella's POV is very limited so that is how she perceived Edward's reaction mixed in with her own fears, concerns, and astonishment about it. I think SM did a great job of making the POVs very realistic and biased just like it would be in real life. It is not just about what is truly going on in the scene. Bella's emotions, bias, and expectations factor into each look we get. That is why I wish Edward had a chance to get in his side of the story. I would have loved to cut to Edward's Book instead of Jacob's and gotten a glimpse of his world instead of the one Bella or Jacob thought they had figured out.

How Edward should respond is just as subjective as everything else is in the books. It just depends on the reader and their interpretation of how it played out. I did not think it was "lame" or out of character for him and I really hope they do not change his reaction in the film. I understood where he was coming from so I had no reservations about how he felt about the monster growing inside of the woman he loved and his response to that. He didn't support it and he was not about to pretend like he did. I do think Edward's POV would have been nice at that point though. Then too, I am still bitter that Jacob got a chance to put in his two cents and yet, Edward, the other main character besides Bella in the saga did not get a chance to. I have always felt that Bella and Edward were the main focus in the saga. Everyone else played a role in their story together, but were not the main characters, even Jacob and the Cullens who were prominent factors in it.
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Re: The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Postby RebeccaCullen » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:12 pm

I would've preferred if Jacob hadn't played a part in BD because his role in the Bella/Edward romance ended when he ran off in EC, IMO. I, too, would have liked to have gotten Edward's POV in BD because it, IMO, was more important, and probably more interesting than seeing Jacob get all upset when he realized that Edward had been won over by the little monster and wanted it to live, and than run off when he couldn't get his way again when he realized that Edward and Bella are having a child together.

If not Edward, I woulda liked a Jasper POV because he's mainly with the Cullen's because Alice is there and would've been an objective viewer and wasn't bitter over Bella choosing to be with Edward. Don't get me wrong, I do think Jasper cares for the Cullen's, but it's obvious that he cares more for his mate then the family.

Having Jacob's POV makes it hard to argue that SM isn't Jacob biased because, if I remember her reasoning correctly, she did it to try and win and warm people to Jacob. And that seemed to have backfired on her with the responses I've seen for the book. One of the reasons I don't like Renesmee is because, as a reader, I was introduced to her through someone that was bitter and hated her from the getgo because the POV we got, Jacob wanted to be with Bella both romantically and physically, and that clouded his perspective.

And I don't care about the wolf politic's that played out in Jacob's POV in BD. I wanted to know what was going on in the house, and any one of the Cullen's would have been better for that.
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Re: The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Postby Jacobs-girl » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:52 pm

Emmettroselover wrote:But Edward is not perfect. It would not be realistic for him to suppress everything he is feeling which was extremely overwhelming and show the "support" that you have in mind. Plus, you have to keep in mind we are not getting an objective POV of what happened and how they both reacted. Bella's POV is very limited so that is how she perceived Edward's reaction mixed in with her own fears, concerns, and astonishment about it. I think SM did a great job of making the POVs very realistic and biased just like it would be in real life. It is not just about what is truly going on in the scene. Bella's emotions, bias, and expectations factor into each look we get. That is why I wish Edward had a chance to get in his side of the story. I would have loved to cut to Edward's Book instead of Jacob's and gotten a glimpse of his world instead of the one Bella or Jacob thought they had figured out.


Just to clarify a couple points; I'm not talking about Edward suppressing all his feelings. What I'm trying to express is my feeling that it would have been a good idea for him to give some emotional support towards Bella at that time.
Of course he is experiencing overwhelming feelings but don't you think that Bella is too? It's often momentous, emotional and overwhelming when a woman finds out that she is pregnant with a normal baby, let alone a vampire one, and this is the basis for my judgement that a little bit of emotional support towards Bella (instead of sitting "frozen to the floor") would have been good. I'm definitely not saying that Edward has to support the situation itself, but I think his wife needed him then.

But maybe we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
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Re: The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Postby Tornado » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:15 pm

You've got to remember that it never occurs to Edward for a moment, until he hears what Rosalie is thinking, that Bella wants the baby. He immediately realises that she's carrying something that will probably kill her, and assumes she does too. After all, it must be a monster, because it's the monster's child (his child). So he does the only thing he can do: try and get them home as quickly as possible. He's furious at himself because he's put her in danger (he tells Jacob as much when he relates what happened when he and Bella were on their way home).

And remember too, when he sees her crying, he becomes nothing but sympathy, telling her that it will be okay and that she won't be hurt. He has no idea that what he is saying about the baby will hurt her, because it never even occurs to him to think that she wants it.

Considering the stress he is under, and the self-loathing he (again) feels because he believes his actions have put her life in danger, his reaction is spot-on, and as caring as it could be considering the level of stress and guilt he is experiencing.
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Re: The Breaking Dawn (I) Trailer!

Postby Emmettroselover » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:23 pm

All amazing points and I completely agree Tornado.
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