Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Discussion of the Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn 1

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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby corona » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:03 pm

Emmettroselover wrote:The question is, will it stay true to the book? Yet again, Summit has already added stuff or flipped it around. That rarely works in these films, but I guess we will just have to wait and see. BD is definitely the one that has me the most intrigued though because there are so many scenes that could either be amazing or a complete failure. With Summit, you never really know, even if I do like Condon.


Exactly. SM has taken the trouble to build her characters with internal consistencies (mostly). I have no difficulty stepping out of pure canon in order to convey the proper spirit of the canon, but when you start playing around with the fundamental nature of a character you are in dangerous territory.

I understand Edward may have felt anger and frustration, but he would have never shown it and he would have squelched it for good early on. I think they may try to make him more relatable. OK, fine, but angry with Bella? There are ways that you might make that work, but the odds whenever you try to pull off something clever is that you screw everything up. Instead of making him relatable you are liable to show him as petulant and guilt-tripping Bella.

And by the way, where is Rosalie during that discussion? Edward isn't angry, he is feeling guilty and Rosalie exacerbates it by placing herself between Bella and Edward. If Edward is angry at anyone it is Rosalie because he knows there is a part of her that is enjoying this.

I don't like the way they portrayed Sam as being so angry either. Did it seem to anyone else that his voice was much deeper than before? I always liked Sam, but now they have him launching a risky attack on the Cullens.

Oh, wait, I get it, it's now SAM that is angry and out of control.

As far as Jacob, if they absolutely must show us a side of Edward that he would never have shown, then I see no reason why they can't show all of the bitterness and spite and anger that we KNOW Jacob is experiencing.

I'll have to stop, that trailer put a bug in my brain and they more I think about it the less I like it. That's the problem when you have to watch snippets and start extrapolating the entire movie from them.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Tornado » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:13 pm

corona wrote:I understand Edward may have felt anger and frustration, but he would have never shown it and he would have squelched it for good early on. I think they may try to make him more relatable. OK, fine, but angry with Bella?


Edward shouted at Bella in New Moon. When he came back in, once the vote was done on declaring that she was to be turned into a vampire, he yelled to such an extent that she put her hands over her ears. He was very angry with her at that stage. He was also angry with Bella in Eclipse. He was furious with her when she sneaked off to see Jacob. In fact, Bella says at one point that she want Charlie around as a buffer so that he would be forced to "keep his voice down". So there is a precedent for him getting angry and shouting at her.

Admittedly in this situation, especially by the time Jacob arrived, Bella was probably a bit too fragile for him to risk doing that. But I always imagined him yelling at her when they first came back, as he realised what she was prepared to do. Still, even in the book, his statement that he and Carlisle were who Bella "was afraid of" I thought was actually quite cruel, although understandable considering the stress he was under. Saying something like that was bound to hurt her.

corona wrote:I don't like the way they portrayed Sam as being so angry either. Did it seem to anyone else that his voice was much deeper than before? I always liked Sam, but now they have him launching a risky attack on the Cullens.


He was intending to launch an attack before the split with Jacob. It's not such a great stretch to think that he might decide to launch one anyway, especially if he thinks the danger is so great.

corona wrote:Oh, wait, I get it, it's now SAM that is angry and out of control.


I didn't get the impression from the trailer that he was out of control. Certainly, in the book, he uses the full force of his authority on the others to make them do what he wants. That's significantly forceful. This may be the reason for his deeper voice (although I didn't really notice that). Maybe it's their way of communicating the Alpha command.

With Jacob, too, I think there's signs of bad behaviour, certainly when he goes to attack Edward and Emmett stops him. He clearly blames Edward for Bella's condition. It will be interesting to see how far they do take it, and whether or not they have Jacob losing it at the wedding. I don't know. We'll have to see.

Also, I've seen no sign of bruised Bella yet. I wonder if they cut that out because of the risk of Edward appearing too abusive.
Last edited by Tornado on Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby RebeccaCullen » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:41 pm

There are FCC rules about things like that I think. I mean, if you look at some of the trailers for DH, part 1 in particular, one of them has Hermione holding out her hands to cast the protection spells and in one of the earliest ones I saw featuring that scene, her hands were covered in blood but for the ones I saw on TV the blood wasn't there.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Jazz Girl » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:07 am

Tornado wrote:Also, I've seen no sign of bruised Bella yet. I wonder if they cut that out because of the risk of Edward appearing too abusive.



This is another area where, once again, the lack of foundation being laid in previous films is going to come back and bite us in the butt. Unless you've read the novels and witnessed Edward's struggle and constant pleading with Bella, trying to make her realize that he poses an actual physical threat to her because of his preternatural strength, it's very easy to forget just how much stronger he is. Add to that the fact that the screenwriter and directors have gone out of their way to humanize Edward, to make him appear less preternatural, and you have the perfect storm brewing for just another complete misunderstanding about the reality of the Saga vs what we see in the films and how they present the characters. All we've really seen of that strength and struggle specifically addressing his fear of hurting her physically is, in Twilight, after the first kiss when Edward says, "I can't ever lose control with you," without any further explanation, leaving it essentially vague as to whether he's talking about his bloodlust or his strength or something else. In the book, he does at least explain further. And then we have Jacob's comment in Eclipse where offhandedly says, "I bet he can't even kiss you without hurting you," which sounds more like a petulant child whining about all the things wrong with his enemy.

The whole dynamic of perceiving Edward as at all abusive is something I am irrationaly passionate about, not the least of reasons why being that I am, by trade an advocate for survivors of relationship violence. The mere suggestion that Edward is anything other than the caring and compassionate partner he is sends me over the edge. And, in all honesty, we got some rumblings of it during Eclipse, when they played Edward as so unrepentantly controlling, but I absolutely know that, when we see the bruises, the outcry about him being abusive will be vocal. We've already gotten it from people who are anti about the books. But, when it is presented in the films, a visual of her bruised body that can't be denied that he caused her physical harm WITHOUT the context of his physical strength and how tenous his control his, or how just letting his emotions overcome his control the least, it's coming. And I'm going to want to find the closest baseball bat and start handing out some common sense.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby corona » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:15 am

Tornado, good catch on the NM scene with Edward yelling and holding Bella's face. I had forgotten that one, Edward had gone way overboard in his response. Of course, it was understandable, an immediate reaction to what Bella was asking Alice for, but still way too much considering he could have crushed Bella's jaw. So I can't say he's never yelled at her. Maybe it is the circumstances, an involuntary surge of panic versus what appears to be Edward in the trailer venting more of a slow boil anger with Bella.

As far as Chaske Spencer's voice, I caught a bit of Eclipse last night and he really does have a deep voice. I hadn't noticed that before.

Sam definitely was going to attack before Jacob broke off from the pack. But, even the first time when it was Jacob that wanted to attack, Sam was concerned about losses to the wolf pack. After learning about the pregnancy, Sam believes he has no choice, but then he loses three of his pack including his best fighter.

If you want an action scene, then canon has to be altered. I do like Sam, but he really isn't a major character, so having him attack is probably not much of a sacrifice to the canon. This seems, however, part of that pattern that we have become familiar with. Canon is sacrificed for expediency, even if it casts a character in a bad light, unless that character happens to be Jacob.

As far as the bruises, it works in the book, I have no way of knowing how they deal with it in the movie. There hasn't been the slightest peep on that concerning rumors, gossip, interviews, etc., at least that I know of.

P.S. JazzGirl, you posted right before me. Yeah, the bruises didn't bother me in the book, they were expected to some degree, demonstrating that Edward was absolutely right that it was dangerous, he wasn't just being a worry wart.

My guess is there might be some bruising shown, but not to the extent there was in the book. There hasn't been enough prep in the movies. Regardless, it wouldn't come off visually very well even if there was prep. This is one area where a true canon portrayal can give an impression that is the polar opposite of the spirit of the canon, so it likely should be altered in order to avoid that.

That's the nature of risky scenes, you are always running against the odds and you end up losing a lot of times. It's not that you can't do it, it's just...risky.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Tornado » Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:14 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:This is another area where, once again, the lack of foundation being laid in previous films is going to come back and bite us in the butt.


I'm honestly not sure that, no matter how much foundation was laid, it would have been enough for some people. Some people just wouldn't get it, especially people like movie critics. And whether we like it or not, Summit does have to take their possible reaction into consideration.

Jazz Girl wrote:The whole dynamic of perceiving Edward as at all abusive is something I am irrationaly passionate about, not the least of reasons why being that I am, by trade an advocate for survivors of relationship violence. The mere suggestion that Edward is anything other than the caring and compassionate partner he is sends me over the edge.


Yes, it annoys the hell out of me too. I was just reading about a book that a psychologist has done in which she says that Edward has a lot of the traits of "men who batter", but noticed that when she said this to Twilight fans they tended to get upset. No joke! That's because WE KNOW HE'S NOT LIKE THAT!!!! Yes, he can be controlling, but there's not one occasion when he does not back off after being controlling, and I don't know a "battering" man who would do that, as it's tantamount to admitting that you're wrong.

Jazz Girl wrote:but I absolutely know that, when we see the bruises, the outcry about him being abusive will be vocal. We've already gotten it from people who are anti about the books.


This is why I can imagine Summit is nervous about it. And it doesn't matter how much explanation is put in, they know it hasn't been enough in the books. It will be interesting to see what they decide to do.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby corona » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:57 am

I would opt to keep the bruises out. The association between that and abuse is strong enough that you risk people making an immediate connection between the two, even if it is false. Even for those who don't it kind of casts a pall on the morning after. Putting it in the book was entirely logical and it had to be addressed and SM was right to include it there.

But...how else do you explain why Edward stays away from Bella for another week? I guess you could blame it on the headboard breaking stuff, but the book demonstrates a very logical reason for Edward's behavior. Maybe the headboard and a few minor bruises (nothing too ghastly) would do the trick.

I swear, if I had been the scriptwriter, I would have spent 90% of my time trying to figure out how to make 10% of the scenes work just right, and I would have doubted every one of my decisions.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Tornado » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:23 pm

Yes, I would never have agreed to be the person responsible for translating BD from book to screen! It's not only massive, it's very difficult!

I think they may well just have a pattern of Edward's fingers on her shoulder or back or something, and leave it at that. Nothing too drastic, but enough for him to freak out. It looks like the bed is destroyed the first night too, so maybe he is just upset that he was so clearly out of control and worried that he might hurt her. Maybe if the damage to the bed is so drastic that will be enough of a deterrent for him.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Chernaudi » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:32 pm

No worries about the rating for BD--Summit and the MPAA have put out an official statement that both parts of BD will be rated PG-13.

We all knew that the love scenes and Nessie's birth would be the major hurdles, but if Titanic, as someone posted on the Lexicon blog and which is nearly 15 years old than BD, can have nudity, violence, swearing, and realistic death scenes in it, then PG-13 should've been a problem with BD. And if those old Guyver OVA cartoons, which had bloody violence, swearing and nudity in them were rated PG-13 in the US, then a PG-13 for BD should've been a problem there.
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Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Postby Tornado » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:47 pm

Yes, but Titanic didn't have blood, and that's a huge difference. Blood is always considered more gory. Also, cartoons have long been able to get away with things that other things can't!
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