Jazz Girl, corona & Tornado ~ I totally agree with your views on the dynamic of Emmett & Rosalie’s relationship.
corona ~ Regarding your comment on SM’s “Miscalculations”, Yes Rosalie is self-satisfied and IMO distracted by her own beauty, but it wouldn’t be an acceptable reason to become a vampire in her mind. The grave still seems better than enhanced beauty combined with the ever painful vampire thirst that will never be satiated as a yellow-eyed vampire.
corona wrote: I may have made a miscalculation myself. Sometimes I don't see what is staring me in the face. I had assumed that Rosalie saw children as being her redemption.
I too have difficulty seeing the obvious, when it not only stares me in the face, but hits me in the face too. It’s the story of my life. That’s why I often request details, details and more details to everything.
Tornado wrote: Just because Edward and Rosalie show some discontent in their lives (and I'd point out here that Rosalie shows discontent even while she has the love of Emmett) doesn't mean it is representative of everyone in the vampire state. It depends on personality, not just that they are vampires. Emmett is a classic example. I believe that, had he been turned by someone else, and had never met Rosalie or fallen in love, he would have probably learned to be content with what he was because that's in his nature. Everyone reacts differently. You can't say that every vampire in existence would not find contentment with a parent-type role model simply because two of the vampires we are acquainted with are discontented with their lives. In fact, there's only one that could conform to your standard, and that's Edward, because, as I said before, Rosalie is not content even with Emmett. And even with Edward, your argument might hold water if he was clearly not happy with Carlisle and Esme as parents, but he is. He just craves a purpose and direction in his life.
I’m afraid you have misunderstood me, I never said EVERY vampire in existence would not find contentment with a parent-type role model. I said the YELLOW-EYED vampires would NOT find SOLE contentment WITH or due to a parent-type role model WHILE being single/and to further clarify celibate. Yes, the yellow-eyed vampires love their parents or parent-type role models, but that is NOT enough to make them fully content and painfully abstain from human blood. The content yellow-eyed vampires have mates or are involved intimately with others (human and vampires) as the Denali Sisters are. Also, since I am on the subject of the Denali’s, I would like to point out the Denali’ s were content, while being single with their mother/creator and while being red-eyed NOT yellow-eyed.
The reason I brought up yellow-eyed vampire adult children not being solely content with their vampire life style, though they had wonderful yellow-eyed vampire parents who I believe they loved or felt some sort of affections for, in the first place, was because of my hypothetical self-defeating scenario where Carlisle changes another un-consenting dying individual, for the SOLE PURPOSE of giving Rosalie motherhood. In any event, mercifully for Rosalie, the gamble she took on Emmett paid off generously. I just don’t see it making sense to take that kind of gamble on motherhood, when she already knows it would have been a dead end. Literally and metaphorically.
Furthermore and lastly, ironically to our discussion, Rosalie discontentment as a yellow-eyed vampire was because she had a strong desire to be a mother and shortly, if not immediately, before being changed into a vampire. Subsequently, freezing and intensifying her craving for motherhood. Almost like human-Esme, who ACTUALLY WAS a mother who intensely craved to hold her child though she knew she never would, then was very shortly after changed into a vampire subsequently freezing and intensifying her nurturing motherly nature. Which makes me incline to believe extremely-nurturing-Esme would NOT have been FULLY content as a motherless yellow-eyed vampire. She would have been possibly half-content and half-gloomy. I am NOT saying she would have been rude like Rosalie, but she would not be as fulfilled as she is now. In any event, the needle on Aunt Rosalie’s contentment meter went up with Nessie’s presence in her life. I am NOT saying it went up all the way, but it did go up significantly.
Jazz Girl ~ Regarding your comments on the possibility of Rosalie being a good or fit mother, I kindly disagree. Just because human-mothers get exhausted and cranky doesn’t mean they would be bad or neglectful mothers. Before Nessie was born, Rosalie was already caring for the child and even before she knew the child would be gifted. She had no problems tending to Bella’s needs and arguing with Edward, possibly Carlisle and of course Jacob, simultaneously. Furthermore, I would like to respond to your statement when you say, “Being a mother requires sacrifice, compromise, patience and above all else, putting yourself absolutely last on your list of priorities”. Rosalie had already demonstrated these qualities ALL THE WHILE in her emotionally (self-absorbed, vain, rude, etc., etc.) intensified vampire state. I would like to illustrate how Rosalie would absolutely qualify to be a good human-mother in the following 4 ways you mentioned she wouldn’t:
Sacrifice – Edward wanted to disassemble Rosalie to get to Nessie. Edward really could have made a mess of her and her prized beauty. More importantly, on a greater sacrificial degree, Rosalie was willing to fight her BROTHER and the child’s FATHER, not to mention all the rest of her opposing beloved family, for Nessie’s life. Also, Rosalie did after all, put her life and Emmett’s on the line for Nessie when the Volturi came, and all without hesitation, I might add.
Compromise – If you mean one has to compromise one’s self-centered life style to fit the needs of their child, then Rosalie nailed this one too when she submits to Edward’s and Bella’s parental authority. However, if you mean the parent needs to compromise with the child’s desires, then IMO, that is wrong. One of the many goals of a parent is to never compromise and always be consistent with the rules to avoid confusing the child. A fickled parent is stressful for a child. Believe it or not, rules make children feel safe and allows them to be productive. Children thrive in stability. But, I’ll be the first to admit, I myself struggle a lot in this area of parenting, not on major issues but on minor ones.
Patience – Rosalie had no problems tending to Bella’s delicate pregnant needs. Also, she was understanding and forbearing when Emmett killed as many people as he did over and over again. If she can be forbearing and tolerant of ALL of that, I’m sure she could and would be more so with her OWN child’s inconveniences and mishaps regardless of the degree or nature of the circumstance.
Putting yourself absolutely last on your list of priorites – When Rosalie lost control and Jacob kicked her in her abdomen, she could have fought back in her wild frame of mind but she didn’t. She wanted to be stopped even though her stronger baser instinct did not want her to. Also, she was starving, to say the very least, when Carlisle recommended she hunt, but she would not go, knowing that Edward might possibly act. Nothing was more important than the welfare of that child. Not even her excruciatingly painful vampire thirst.
Also, though Rosalie could not be Nessie’s mother, she is willing to care for Nessie as though she was, not only before she is born, but after as well. Even after the fact of knowing she will never be called momma by this child. Further, contrary to your belief, Rosalie does have a choice. She does not have to be sooo mothering to Nessie. She could have been like Aunt Alice or any of the other loving Cullens, but she is NOT. She argues with Jacob and submits to Edward and Bella’s parental authority not because she has to be in Nessie’s life to that degree, but because she wants to be. She is as nurturing and close to Nessie as any mother would be, and without getting in Bella’s way, I might add. Further, on a lighter note, she has been gifted an added little bonus, she was able to feed Nessie in a bottle while newborn momma-Bella couldn’t. I am not saying no one else fed Nessie, I’m just saying for a short while Rosalie was given a treat of sorts.
Regarding human-Rosalie’s financial status:
I just brought that up to illustrate how self-centered and self-absorbed women sometimes make good mothers. Not necessarily saying rich self-absorbed women make better mothers than poor self-absorbed women. I am just saying it is possible.
Regarding Esme’s motivation for her stand:
I don’t doubt Esme’s love for Bella at all or that it is indeed greater than Rosalie’s. Further, IF Bella would have wanted to STAY HUMAN and would have decided to abort the child that was killing her and would have, without a doubt, ENDED her human-life, I like Esme too, would have been supportive of Bella’s choice. The point I want to make again is that Bella, Rosalie and Esme are fighting for the life of the unborn child in their own respective ways and because of their own respective reasons. Though, I do understand how and why Rosalie’s reasons really bug you, the main point I want to make regarding this subject is that, at the end of the day, ALL of them were fighting for the same cause, though for different reasons.
Jazz Girl wrote: She did neither of those things. She called Rosalie because she knew exactly the position Rosalie would take. She needed someone who didn’t give a damn if she lived or died, but who would protect the fetus to the death. She counted on Rosalie not only siding with her, but truly wanting the baby for her own.
Momma-Bella was smart in her stressful situation. By calling Rosalie, she made short term and long term arrangements for her child’s well being. Edward is the apple of Carlisle’s and Esme’s eyes she could not chance that Carlisle would side with her or that Esme’s words would be sufficient to change Edward’s mind. She was right. When Jacob asked Edward something like, “why hasn’t Carlisle taken it out of her?” Edward says something like, “Carlisle would have, but her bodyguard complicated things and Carlisle would not act while Esme was against it”.