Explorations (**BD2 Movie Spoilers!**)

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Re: Explorations

Postby MoonlessNight » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:31 pm

Tornado, thanks for pointing out one of the few things that Edward and Rosalie have in common. They both view themselves as monsters, and hate themselves for it. I think the difference is that Edward internalizes it, and Rosalie lashes out at others when she is forced to face it.

I always wondered if Edward would've felt differently about Bella becoming a vampire, if Rosalie's reaction to changing wasn't as strong. He had to hear her thoughts for two years of how she would rather be dead than a vampire, and then to find out that she was changed for him, to hopefully become his mate. I think this messed with his head more than what was mentioned in the books.
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Re: Explorations

Postby Tornado » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:16 am

I agree, Moonless Night. I think Rosalie's reaction would have affected him deeply. I'm sure she put a nice, perfect shine on all her human dreams and played them over and over again. And, of course, even though he has other human thoughts to compare it with and knows that all those things are not always sunshine and roses, Edward always sees the worst in what he is, so only sees what Bella will lose, not what she might gain.
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Re: Explorations

Postby GrayceM » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:50 pm

I like the idea of Rosalie changing after Nessie is born too. I don’t believe she was around long (I’d have to look it up) before she found Emmett, so I think she changed fundamentally by being given the chance to “mother” Nessie and that leaves her feeling complete. She and Bella formed a bond that will last because first, Bella needed her specifically and then because Bella, although inadvertently, gives her the chance to explore that part of her nature.

I’m not sure that Rosalie and Edward have the same view on what they are. Yes, they both believe they are monsters and they both hate it, but I think even that’s for different reasons. Edward believes that he’s one of the “eternal damned” but I don’t see that Rosalie thinks that deeply on the subject. I do think that the vanity plays into it more for her in that she’s does pretend to be human more but I think that if she could have children, she honestly wouldn’t have been unhappy with being eternally beautiful. Her line in the movie, “Emmett gray haired by my side...” doesn't seem like something that she truly wants. It doesn’t fit with her nature to want to grow old really... :?
For Rosalie, I think her biggest issue, wanting what she can never have. She was young and beautiful and had her “life” planned out before her to get everything she wanted. Then this tragic event happened to her. It would’ve made sense to me if she had been angry at Carlisle for turning her, but I don’t think she had an issue with leaving her real life behind. I think it was more that the life she should have had was stolen from her by Royce and his friends. Had she not been turned her life would have been over for her. She couldn't have lived with the results of her assault, even if she had somehow survived physically. I think that is the part of what she is that she has never reconciled with...and the reason that she thinks she would have rather died.
As far as her reaction goes, it’s stated more than once that something of your nature is sometimes carried forward and amplified when you are changed. For Rosalie, maybe she wasn’t quite so “unlikeable” as a human...though it seems as though Edward really didn’t like her to start with. He thought her selfish and spoiled so I’m not sure her reaction held any bearing over what he thought, with the exception of Bella being changed. Her reaction to being changed was the strongest so to Edward's way of thinking, that's the one that would show the most contrast to Alice, who doesn't seem to mind being a vampire and is very close to Bella. I think he was grasping at anything that would make her change her mind or at least make her wait. Maybe he was trying to get Bella to understand that she wouldn't necessarily be growing old so much as having the chance to grow up. In my mind, Bella's reaction to growing old seems very shallow considering how comfortable she is with herself in every other aspect.
I’m not sure even he realized that because he pushed Rosalie’s reaction so much to Bella that she knew exactly who to call when the pregnancy happened. If ya’ll remember, Rosalie thought he’d be mad at her for telling Bella her story. He only thought that it would give her a perspective that he couldn’t explain to her. As usual though, he didn’t anticipate the way Bella changed her view of Rosalie after hearing it. And instead of her story allowing Bella to realize what she’d be giving up, as Edward hoped, it only made her more stubborn to get what she wanted before. Can you imagine what Edward thought towards Rosalie during the pregnancy? Especially at the beginning, before Jacob got there, which I think helped him alleviate some of his frustrations about her. Jacob could get away with threatening Rosalie and making snide comments. Even had Edward thought the same, he’s too much of a gentleman to voice those opinions.

After the wedding and the birth, Edward seems content with what he is. I don’t think he’s as conflicted as he was and I believe that’s completely due to having someone to share forever with. Rosalie had that previously but what she didn’t have was a family. During the pregnancy and after, I think she and Edward both were able to reconnect with their humanity which is what they were missing from their lives. They were just missing it for different reasons.

What would be the reaction to my theory of having Leah imprint on Nahuel? Would that be a conceivable (no pun intended) scenario?
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Re: Explorations

Postby MoonlessNight » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:01 pm

Tornado wrote:I agree, Moonless Night. I think Rosalie's reaction would have affected him deeply. I'm sure she put a nice, perfect shine on all her human dreams and played them over and over again. And, of course, even though he has other human thoughts to compare it with and knows that all those things are not always sunshine and roses, Edward always sees the worst in what he is, so only sees what Bella will lose, not what she might gain.


I can so see Rosalie hamming it up to make everyone, and especailly Edward, feel bad.

GrayceM wrote:I like the idea of Rosalie changing after Nessie is born too. I don’t believe she was around long (I’d have to look it up) before she found Emmett, so I think she changed fundamentally by being given the chance to “mother” Nessie and that leaves her feeling complete. She and Bella formed a bond that will last because first, Bella needed her specifically and then because Bella, although inadvertently, gives her the chance to explore that part of her nature.


I think caring for Bella during pregnancy changed her, forced her to stop being quite as self centered and grow up a bit. I know a lot of people felt Rosalie didn't have Bella's best interests at heart during the pregnancy, but I don't really agree with that. I always felt she didn't want to see Bella forced into something, the way she was by both Royce and Carlisle on the last night of her life.

I think the whole Cullen clan, especially Rosalie and Edward, changed from Nessie's birth. It's hard to hate vampirism when you live with a sweet and beautiful vampire hybrid child.

GrayceM wrote:For Rosalie, I think her biggest issue, wanting what she can never have.


I think you hit the nail on the head (At least pre-Nessie). It was mentioned (EC or MS) that Rosalie would give up everything, including Emmett, to become human again. I always thought that if she did become human again, she would beg to be changed back to a vampire once her looks started fading and her body started sagging. And she has to know that no one would love her like Emmett.

GrayceM wrote:After the wedding and the birth, Edward seems content with what he is. I don’t think he’s as conflicted as he was and I believe that’s completely due to having someone to share forever with.


Edward is definitely accepting his vampirism after Nessie's birth, and to a certain extent after the wedding. I think a huge weight was lifted from his shoulders when Bella woke up from the conversion not only alive, but happy.

GrayceM wrote:What would be the reaction to my theory of having Leah imprint on Nahuel? Would that be a conceivable (no pun intended) scenario?


Interesting...I imagine that taking place 10 or so years down the road when Nessie is fully mature and the Volturi decide to start another war. Can you imagine what the residents of the Res think? First Jacob and now Leah. There goes the neighborhood!
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Re: Explorations

Postby Tornado » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:05 pm

I think if Leah had imprinted on Nahuel it would have been mentioned, so I don't think it's going to happen, but it's an interesting idea.

GrayceM wrote:I do think that the vanity plays into it more for her in that she’s does pretend to be human more but I think that if she could have children, she honestly wouldn’t have been unhappy with being eternally beautiful. Her line in the movie, “Emmett gray haired by my side...” doesn't seem like something that she truly wants. It doesn’t fit with her nature to want to grow old really...


I couldn't agree more. Rosalie would not enjoy growing old. She just had everything planned out and then didn't get what fit into her notion of how life should be. And yes, it wouldn't have surprised me either if she had become human again and later wanted to be a vampire again because she was losing her looks. She just never thinks beyond a very narrow, shallow framework, and certainly never beyond herself.
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Re: Explorations

Postby GrayceM » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:09 pm

Tornado wrote:I think if Leah had imprinted on Nahuel it would have been mentioned, so I don't think it's going to happen, but it's an interesting idea.


It was a random thought that they could show something like that in the credits and it wouldn't hurt my feelings. I've heard that it's something unexpected but that they thought fans would love it...that it really completed the story.
I don't recall Leah being in her human form around him or even being mentioned at the end. I'd have to re-read the ending but it would take care of two loose end characters...

OH! I just thought of something else. Jacob mentions that the theory is, once there are no vampires around, they will quit phasing and essentially begin aging again...does that mean, with Nessie, he will never age?

And...though I didn't care much for Leah's character, if she were to imprint on Nahuel while it would give them both their HEA, she wouldn't be able to conceive a child...that wouldn't necessarily be a HEA then would it... :?
Last edited by GrayceM on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Explorations

Postby Tornado » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:01 pm

With the wolves and ageing, apparently the deal is once they stop phasing for any length of time they start ageing again. Jacob does point out at one stage that they can't even consider not phasing because of all the vampires around, but I don't think the presence of vampires forces them to phase so much as it means that they must be in wolf form regularly in order to kill the vampires. But the idea is that, as long as any of them keep phasing regularly, whether vampires are around or not, they will not age. So, as long as Jacob keeps going into his wolf form on a regular basis, he will stay the age he is now for as long as he lives.
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Re: Explorations

Postby Grayce » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:19 pm

True, and with him phasing to hunt with Nessie, he won't age past her. I didn't think about it in that respect. Just remembered it was because the vampires were around that the gene kicked in to start with. Would seem more logical for that to be a major contributing factor in it than just being able to control phasing for a length of time.

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Re: Explorations

Postby Edwards Ragazza » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:51 am

I am not sure where to ask this question. Here is goes. I am re-reading Twilight after 4 years and I can't believe how much I have forgotten. I am sure it was explained before but in Twilight Bella says she feels Edwards breath and was just wondering if SM ever explained that?
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Re: Explorations

Postby Tornado » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:51 am

I think a couple of times she says that she felt his sweet breath brush her face, but I have always taken that to mean that, when he is speaking, she can smell the sweetness in his breath and it's so distinct it hits her face in waves as he talks. It's one of his lures for prey. As he points out to Bella in the meadow scene, everything about him invites her in - his face, his voice, even his smell. The sweet smell of his breath is so distinct she notices it continually. We all do breathe over people a bit when we talk to them, but most people don't notice it unless the person has particularly bad breath. Bella notices it so much because Edward's breath smells so good.
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