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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Kachiti » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:13 am

Wow, my power goes out for several hours and come back to find that I've s missed several pages.

Tox, Edward is anything but stupid and definitely not flat as character otherwise we have these so called "blinded girls" in love with him.

Terracottakitten and Tox I find it interesting at the timing of your posts as if it was a setup but then again I could be wrong. Now back to some of things you guys have said about Edward. Actually, let me start out by asking if you thought Edward was so negative and the relationship he has with Bella is wrong then why did you continue to read the books? Puzzling ?

Anyway, I think its been stated so many times that the Twilight series is fiction. I mean where else on earth are you going to find Vampires and Werewolves. The thing is anything can apply to a way a person see the world. From the time a child is born they read stories of fiction and watch cartoons where fictional characters do unbelievable things. How would you apply them to real life? Have you read Han Christian Anderson? Think Disney.

You bounce on everything negative about him but you miss why so many girls and some guy think Edward's great. He sense of goodness, warmth, gentleness but mainly its the way he loves and respects Bella. Yes, when he first meets Bella he wants to eat her which is wrong and evil (I throw that in for you). Edward realizing this takes off so he doesn't hurt her. Yea, he comes back because he misses his family, unthinkable I know. Then he spends a month trying avoid her making himself miserable and everyone around him. I would say that was pretty selfish of him including where he saves her life twice and then takes her dinner because he worried she might go into shock. What was he thinking.

I would agree that Edward can seem controlling but its based on fear not because he wants to dominate her. I mean the girl is an accident waiting to happen. Can't walk without tripping over her own two feet and the broken bones, even Carlisle commented about it. With everything that they had been through in Twilight and New Moon. Most can see why he gets a little crazy with Bella and her ability to bring danger into her life. But it doesn't mean he's abusive mentally. I could understand if he insulted her consistently or made her think that she was weak but he didn't. I find it interesting that when Edward preforms the biggest selfless act of his existence by leaving Bella to protect her, you find him stupid and hurtful.

Terracottakitten, I would have to agree that he cross the line, going into her room but he never lays a hand on her. He doesn't go through her stuff or watch her get dress or undress. He just watches over her like a lovesick guardian angel or vampire in his case. Yet this does not make him creepy. I'm not sure where in any of the 4 1/2 books Edward's relationship with Bella destroys the people around them. If anything it brought, humans, werewolves and vampires together in a way that had never happened before.

Its sad that you think that most young girls have no common sense when it comes to telling the difference between fiction and real life. That they focus on Edward good traits and might actually want a guy who is smart, respectful, loving, gentle, honorable and romantic. That they are weak for enjoying such a "stupid fantasy". I say this as a person who isn't even crazy about Edward. Yes, I like him but I don't have rose colored glasses on when it comes to Edwards many imperfection. Honestly there wouldn't be a story if Edward was flawless.
Last edited by Kachiti on Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Tox » Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:22 am

Kachiti wrote:Wow, my power goes out for several hours and come back to find that I've s missed several pages.

Tox, Edward is anything but stupid and definitely not flat as character otherwise we have these so called "blinded girls" in love with him.

Terracottakitten and Tox I find it interesting at the timing of your posts as if it was a setup but then again I could be wrong. Now back to some of things you guys have said about Edward. Actually, let me start out by asking if you thought Edward was so negative and the relationship he has with Bella is wrong then why did you continue to read the books? Puzzling ?

Anyway, I think its been stated so many times that the Twilight series is fiction. I mean where else on earth are you going to find Vampires and Werewolves. The thing is anything can apply to a way a person see the world. From the time a child is born they read stories of fiction and watch cartoons where fictional characters do unbelievable things. How would you apply them to real life? Have you read Han Christian Anderson? Think Disney.

You bounce on everything negative about him but you miss why so many girls and some guy think Edward's great. He sense of goodness, warmth, gentleness but mainly its the way he loves and respects Bella. Yes, when he first meets Bella he wants to eat her which is wrong and evil (I throw that in for you). Edward realizing this takes off so he doesn't hurt her. Yea, he comes back because he misses his family, unthinkable I know. Then he spends a month trying avoid her making himself miserable and everyone around him. I would say that was pretty selfish of him including where he saves her life twice and then takes her dinner because he worried she might go into shock. What was he thinking.

I would agree that Edward can seem controlling but its based on fear not because he wants to dominate her. I mean the girl is an accident waiting to happen. Can't walk without tripping over her own two feet and the broken bones, even Carlisle commented about it. With everything that they had been through in Twilight and New Moon. Most can see why he gets a little crazy with Bella and her ability to bring danger into her life. But it doesn't mean he's abusive mentally. I could understand if he insulted her consistently or made her think that she was weak but he didn't. I find it interesting that when Edward preforms the biggest selfless act of his existence by leaving Bella to protect her, you find him stupid and hurtful.

Terracottakitten, I would have to agree that he cross the line, going into her room but he never lays a hand on her. He doesn't go through her stuff or watch her get dress or undress. He just watches over her like a lovesick guardian angel or vampire in his case. Yet this does not make him creepy. I'm not sure where in any of the 4 1/2 books Edward's relationship with Bella destroys the people around them. If anything it brought, humans, werewolves and vampires together in a way that had never happened before.

Its sad that you think that most young girls have no common sense when it comes to telling the difference between fiction and real life. That they focus on Edward good traits and might actually want a guy who is smart, respectful, loving, gentle, honorable and romantic. That they are weak for enjoying such a "stupid fantasy". I say this as a person who isn't even crazy about Edward. Yes, I like him but I don't have rose colored glasses on when to Edwards many imperfection. Honestly there wouldn't be a story if Edward was flawless.



I must say just because I don't like Edward doesn't mean I think it's ridiclous anyone does. When I first read Twilight I fell in love with him, but I matured and found him boring. But I can definitely see why others like him ^^
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Amivera » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:00 am

You know that argument about whether Edward and Bella are really in love or lust?

Both sides can definitely be supported, but I was extremely surprised when I read Midnight Sun and realized that Edward fell in love with Bella before he even knew her brain. He snuck into her bedroom and sat, watching her sleep, thinking about how beautiful she looked while she was sleeping, completely vulnerable.
That's a little disturbing, but on top of that, he left the Swan's home loving her because she moaned his name in her sleep.

And he's a 108-year-old virgin. I still wonder how that's possible... definitely one of the more fiction/fantasy/wishful thinking aspects of it.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby pubesy » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:10 am

And he's a 108-year-old virgin. I still wonder how that's possible... definitely one of the more fiction/fantasy/wishful thinking aspects of it.


I always though that too. Especially since rosalie was created FOR edward........
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Amethyst1 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:32 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:malaz, YOU may be the exception but the fact is that most young girls are highly susceptable to images and symbols such as edward, they are shaping their values and what they want ina relationship, and they get that from their environments, be it their parents, their friends, or their books. even the media. why do you think anorexia is around??

that's not to say EVERY young girl who reads twilight will do this. but it's safe to say that this is what girls at that stage DO. now, if you have a lot of other positive examples of how a relationship should work, then you'll be fine. the girls susceptable to falling into this trap are ones that have no other examples.

I just hate how people use that card generally. i KNOW there might be some girls out there that are a little...i am not the only exception, a ton of my friends read twilight and although we are OBSESSED with the books and edward, we do understand.

hahahah...i don't know who said this, sorry..don't remember! yeah, anyways. it's funny, CAUSE i always say "if edwardemmettjaspercarlisleORgarrett were stalking me, they're free to do so anytime." or the popular one "who really needs a headboard" man...i wish they were true. but i am just sort of kidding and serious at the same time. i love it though.

I mean, the thing is for me. I don't take these books seriously...at all. If i did and tried to be over-anylitical. i'll ruin them for myself and ruin any other fiction book too.
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i don't see how it's evil for edward to want to kill bella in an instant. he's a vampire. geez, some of these posts...- yeahh, anywho.

the 108 year old virgin - halarious!! i still picture edward to be 17 so it's alright...mentally and physically..so...

pubesy - rose wasn't created for edward. it was after she were created that carlisle hoped she'd be what esme is to him to edward. i thought he changed her because it 'was too much a waste' hmmm...? *sigh* carlisle is great!
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:14 pm

kachiti, a set up, really?? let's take a deep breath here.

malaz, believe me, i understand where you are coming from. i HATE it when people dismiss the things i say because of my supposed "immaturity" .

the way i see it is this:

smart, strong young girls will take away edward's, bella's, jacob's, everyone's strengths and aspire to be that, and they will understand that their negative qualities don't make them bad people, they don't negate those strengths, but they aren't ok either. that's why i think it's so important to discuss ALL facets of a character, and acknowledge their strengths and weaknesses.

girls who don't have good strong role models, who don't have a good sense of right and wrong, won't realize these faults and will think that they are ok, BUT they will do that with any character, so it's REALLY unfair to berate SM for that.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Pel » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:09 pm

I think Pubsey makes a great point on a dangerous relationship vs. an abusive relationship. I'll absolutely Bella's relationship is dangerous so is the relationship with Jacob.

Abusers typically isolate their victims from everyone but themself. In that type of relationship it's all about the abuser's narcisitc impression of him/herself and their need they have not so much to control (granted the control is a symptom), but their greater need is to possess. They need to posses that person so that their sole function is to serve them. They then berate their victim attacking their self-esteem and systematically convince them that they are worthless, and that they'd be nothing without their abuser. The victims are made to feel that nothing they do is right and need to check everything down to when they pee, what they eat, what they wear with their abuser. Something nonsensical like leaving a window open can set an abuser off. This isn't Edward.

Edward just doesn't want Bella to be around Jacob because he seriously thinks young werewolves are uncontrollable and Bella risks being killed. Given what happened to Emily Young, this is not an unfounded fear. Edward has no problem with Bella being around her family (Charlie and Renee) and encourages those relationships. Edward has no problem with Bella interacting with her high school friends. Once she's a vampire Bella interacts with any number of creatures.

More than anything Edward is anti-Bella getting hurt. Do I think he over thinks this often? Yep. Are there places where I think he is unreasonably controlling? Yep. But abusive no.

Could Bella be stronger with him? Sure. But that's not her personality. She doesn't really fight back, unless she's backed into a corner. That pattern repeats not just with Edward, but with Charlie, Renee, and Jake. Bella doesn't yell and really throw a fit until pushed. She tries to ignore it, work it out peacefully, and avoid the situation. When it finally comes to a head she takes a stand. Now that's not my personality, but it is Bella's. It's also the personality of a lot of people I've encountered in life. I think it makes her a real character, not everyone is that stand up and hear me now person. I think most aren't.

The one thing I think interesting is that the only person who has ever done physical harm to Bella out of anger is Jacob at the wedding. Abusers escalate and don't think twice about their action. That profile fits neither Jake nor Edward.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:35 pm

thank you Pel. i wholeheartedly agree.

it irks me to no end when people say that edward is abusive, jacob's almost a rapist, so on and so forth, because it's just so NOT true.

i WILL add though, that the way edward controlled bella in eclipse was ridiculous, WAY out of line, and yes, abusive. HOWEVER, Pel is absolutely right, abuse is a pattern, not a specific instance.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby moon sidhe » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:43 pm

Amivera wrote:Both sides can definitely be supported, but I was extremely surprised when I read Midnight Sun and realized that Edward fell in love with Bella before he even knew her brain.


You may not know or understand all the intricacies of someone's personality on first meeting them, but there's still something intangible that you can sense about them. A connection maybe? It's described as an electric current in the book. They just seem to immediately sense this before they even know one another. And that's the romantic ideal, right? Two people are so right for each other that they just immediately know it. There's no logic or reason to it.

It does seem like a fantasy... but I must admit that I've experienced it myself. The total happy cliché. On my first date with my, now fiancé, there was something in the air. I don't even know how to describe it, but I can tell you that after our first date he went home and told his roommate that he just met the girl he was going to marry. He was right. :)
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Amethyst1 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:55 pm

moon sidhe wrote:
Amivera wrote:Both sides can definitely be supported, but I was extremely surprised when I read Midnight Sun and realized that Edward fell in love with Bella before he even knew her brain.


You may not know or understand all the intricacies of someone's personality on first meeting them, but there's still something intangible that you can sense about them. A connection maybe? It's described as an electric current in the book. They just seem to immediately sense this before they even know one another. And that's the romantic ideal, right? Two people are so right for each other that they just immediately know it. There's no logic or reason to it.

It does seem like a fantasy... but I must admit that I've experienced it myself. The total happy cliché. On my first date with my, now fiancé, there was something in the air. I don't even know how to describe it, but I can tell you that after our first date he went home and told his roommate that he just met the girl he was going to marry. He was right. :)

it's quite true. i haven't fallen inlove (yet)...but i've experienced something similar, I met a guy from first sight that i felt something towards. i have a feeling he did too!

that IS so incredible moon sidhe. i am happy for you. he seem like an amazing guy! :D
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