vampmadness wrote:I realize that I am a little late to this conversation but, I must point out what nobody else has. Chelsea was part of the Volturi and had powers. Jane was a major player throughout the series and her gift was very powerful. In fact even the Huge male vamps that you refer to that were part of the Volturi would do whatever she asked whenever she asked!
No, they're not. They're Guard members. Don't compliment them by adding them to the coven; they're not that important.
The coven itself is (was) composed of five (six) members: Aro and Sulpicia, Caius and Athenodora and Marcus (and Didyme).
Now, I shall continually edit this post as I respond. But I felt like clarifying that first. The misconception that Volturi and Volturi Guard are synonymous is a pet peeve of mine.
ETA the first!
December wrote:Oh, Alcyone...you're a hard act to follow. Um, bunnies...?
What? You have a problem with bunnies? You prejudiced witch!
Alcyone wrote:You've been brainwashing ouisa. I really don't like you right now.
Hee. I haven't, I haven't.... I just post my implausible readings of these books and she reads them. Same as you, only to different effect. Obviously.
*points finger* BRAINWASHER!
Love IS often bizarre and baseless and arbitrary in its inception -- it's only after time that it becomes grounded in something real.
Can it at least pick someone tolerable?
Ok, I'm definitely missing something here (*grin*). Because...Aro is so NOT humble either. Is it only arrogant adolescents that give you the screaming habdabs? Does it become a less grating trait after the first couple of thousand years? Or is it just something irresistible about that oniony skin, so that his defects of personality are as nothing?
I think I'm not the only one with an onion fetish because you are constantly bringing them up. I have Aro and Lomesir staked a claim on Marcus long ago. Caius still needs someone. You'd make an...interesting
What's missing is that I typically am not annoyed by arrogance (considering how I have an ego the size of Jupiter) unless the other person think themselves above me. Then, I promptly do what I can to shove them back to their--and inferior to mine--level.
Yes, I'm quite mature too.
Returning to topic, it's just a trait that annoys me in Edward. Probably because it's Edward's. Besides, Aro is like Jack-Jack from the Incredibles. Cute, innocent, no one would think something bad who is actually capable of morphing into a demon-like creature. He's adorable. Unlike Edward who is not even tolerable.
So tell me then, what do you learn of his true personality?
He could be tolerable. But his worse characteristics promptly take over and pop a cap to the light at the end of the tunnel.
Ah. Interesting. Can you explain this? Pushy and insensitive, I get -- but in what sense is he torturing her?
Maybe torture wasn't the correct term. But it's the only word I'm currently thinking of. Give me some time and I'll find the correct word.
Not sure if we're talking about the same thing here or not. What I had in mind wasn't so much the hurdles to their relationship (predictable) as the seriousness with which -- beneath the fluffy romance -- Stephenie was taking the dark side of her vampires' existence.
Ah, okay. So as not to repeat what you said, I'll just say I agree and move on.
But of course, the story of BD was established before she began to explore those implications in MS, NM and EC....
Which might be partly responsible for some continuance issues. If BD had been published sans Jacob right after Twilight, I may have disliked it less. As it stands in fourth place...eh.
Actually, he made his own abyss. That god complex of his...
Now here you've lost me. How is Edward responsible for that first day in Biology when he nearly falls back into the blackest savagery?
I was actually referring to his Dark Days hunting the scum of humanity. And his decision to only hunt down monsters in an effort to make it more morally/ethically/hypocritically acceptable.
Was it firefly who mentioned he would have been more likeable if he'd snacked on infants too?
It was indeed....Firefly wrote:
Edward should eat a few babies, start a few wars, massacre a roomful of lawyers... It might improve his character.
I love firefly
Well, you're a hard taskmaster, aren't you? You want Edward to acquire in a mere seventy years or so the imperviousness it took even Carlisle centuries to develop.
Not seventy years. Seventy milliseconds.
Joking aside, I would have preferred he do it Carlisle's way: through years and years of work and sacrifice. Or by snacking on lawyers. They're blood-sucking parasites anyway.
On the other hand, the appalling strength of will it needed to take Bella's blood from her hand (and then stop) when James bit her seems to me trial enough of his character that I'm happy to grant him a few unfought-for blessings, on down the line.
I'll admit I see your point and will try to bear this in mind when I next snap at him. I still hate him with the fire of a thousand suns.
Or, as had been touched on before, if he simply showed some form of compassion as his family does, rather than sheer selfishness.
Oh I'm getting so confused now...was it earlier on this thread or on TUGMP (or is it a post I'm still drafting?) that I was writing about the fact that there are many roads to virtue -- and if a moral code, rather than naked compassion, is the staff that holds someone up on that stony path, I'm not inclined to cavil.
Earlier on this thread. And that's a good topic for a nice debate, Twilight related or not.
December wrote:Heh. Well. I guess opinions differ.... If you prefer, released. Plucked out of the dark night of his changeless existence and granted love, joy, the ability to see himself for something other than a monster....
*blinkblink* But he is
I tried to make this shorter. Honestly, I tried....
ETA THE SECOND!!
Ouisa wrote:Marcus' wife had a power yes. She made everyone happy. Little singing birds and glitter and happy ponies.
Then, because this wasn't power to the use and liking of Aro, he murdered her.
Therefore I think Alcyone's complaint about the Volturi women and their lack of power to be valid.
See? She agrees! She's P-S-MART! PSMART! (Yes, psmart has a silent "p" at the beginning. Like psychology. And pschool.)
Especially if you have read her amazing AB type and met her kick a-- Volturi women.
My girls would so kill their canon counterparts.
It's the preponderance of this violence happening to women with no corresponding violence to men.
I'm pretty sure too that Alcyone is disturbed by the continued trend of violence inflicted by men on women in The Host.
Yep. Especially as in both cases many of the women are close to my age.
There Alcyone was that enough of the dark side for you?
..*wails* IT'S NOT THE PSAME!
ETA THE THIRD! (Dear goddess, this post is turning out to be long)
December wrote:Hmmm. You're not trying to have it both ways here, are you? If it makes women look bad to depict female characters who are brutal, callous or sadistic (Victoria, Jane, Gianna (presumptively)), shouldn't it make men look bad too?
I'm lost. When did I say I have a problem with brutal, callous or sadistic women (where all adjectives apply to my OC baby, Anna)?
Or conversely, make those sadistic women characters look strong? We get to watch Jane torturing Edward (which ought to brighten your day, oughtn't it?)
Very much so, thank you. I still say some more stings either from Jane or Kate would have fixed Edward right up.
But I do take your point about the pattern of Stephenie's preferences. Do you feel the same about the Host? Can you tell me about it without sending Ouisa's nice thread up in flames?
But fire is fun!
Regarding the Host, I could see why there was so much violence being hurled Melanie's/Wanderer's way, but it's still vastly disturbing 1) the amount and 2) how close it hit me. They're not much older than I am and I could relate (with Melanie at least) to a degree. So it made it all very vivid for me. Which made for a highly indignant and PO'd Alcyone.
If I were a despot...
Shhh! Don't let them all know! It's easier to take over the world when world leaders aren't awa--oh, I mean, look Bambi!