Pride and Prejudice

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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Postby Spartan » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:05 pm

It does seem that Bella is a bit regardless of her own safety, she'll always put others first no matter the cost to her self - but I don't think that it means she's weak at all, quite the reverse actually, I think it shows real strength of character and loyalty. I agree with waiting tobe dazzled about the rape night - what most women would remember about that night would be that this guy that you had the hugest crush on is actually an 110 yr old vampire.

*Edit*
( Regarding the post below )

Exactly!
Last edited by Spartan on Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Postby glstewart » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:15 am

Amivera: You say that Bella's lack of common sense shows up in her walking around a strange city she had never been to before. I don't agree. She wasn't just wandering around like a moron, she was looking for a bookstore (albeit, while she was preoccupied) and got lost. It could happen to anyone.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Postby Amivera » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:39 pm

Gitta wrote:Maybee physically (until she became a vampire) but she has a very strong mind stronger, than Edwards. She survived when he left her, she did do a couple of stupid things but she survived. When she found out that a vampire army of newborns were created to kill her she didn't freak out, she was only worried about her friends and family and wanted to help as little as she could.

Well, I guess we disagree in that I don't think she handled Edward's leaving very well. For someone she had only known for a few months, she really went off the deep end and set a horrible example for all the people reading a book. That's not how you act when someone dumps you, whether it's 'true love' or not. (View Edward and Bella thread).

I thought her suicidal tendencies were over the top; she began hallucinating, placing herself in more danger, and risking her friends' lives as well.

And she stubborn and determinated and that's also a sign of a very strong and independet mind, but it's a fine line between stubborness and pure stupidity.

Stubbornness does not mean one is not stupid.
Being 'determined' to do something does not automatically give sense to your actions.

glstewart wrote:Amivera: You say that Bella's lack of common sense shows up in her walking around a strange city she had never been to before. I don't agree. She wasn't just wandering around like a moron, she was looking for a bookstore (albeit, while she was preoccupied) and got lost. It could happen to anyone.

It was dark. She had never been there before. She had no idea where she was going.
Yet, she insisted on going alone. That was a bad decision, but yes, people do make decisions like that. The fact that she brushes things off afterwards, giving no thought to her actions and bad decisions, really reflects on her character overall. I suppose you could say that it defines her.

She hurts someone, thinks it was selfish, does nothing to fix it, and moves on with her life.
She gets in a dangerous situation, is saved, thinks it was slightly stupid, does nothing to change it, and moves on with her life.

Again and again she falls into this pattern. Someone once said that one of their personal definitions of strength is when one is strong enough to recognize faults AND change them.
I agree wholeheartedly with that. It takes strength to absorb criticism (which Bella does not do), but it takes even more strength to do something about it.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Postby glstewart » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:31 pm

Anyway...back to the Pride & Prejudice correlations...
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Postby Amivera » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:54 pm

That was one. My last paragraph, if you see, is about Bella's strength. We were discussing her strength compared to the strength of Elizabeth Bennet.

Pride and Prejudice and Twilight have virtually nothing in common. I'm almost offended that this book is being compared to such a great piece of literature.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Postby sunni » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:33 pm

My post is slightly off topic at the beginning (replying to some previous comments)
moon sidhe wrote:Also, stalking is in the eye of the beholder. I mean, if a guy likes me, and I have absolutely no interest in him as a friend or otherwise, I frequently tend to think of it as creepy, even if it's not exactly fair. If a guy I like is showing interest and showing up in the same places or calling me all the time? Well, I don't find that creepy, because I want to see him and hear from him. Bella obviously really liked Edward. So of course she would be flattered by the attention rather than put off by it.

The stalking was spooky regardless of whether or not he liked her. At that point in time, Edward didn't even know Bella and yet he had the nerve to creep into her room. I think the problem here is that because of Edward's dazzling looks, both Bella and the reader are masked from the real problem here. I don't think he should have been excused from what he did, just because he looked good. I'm sure there are stalkers/murderers/bad guys/etc out there who are good-looking...doesn't excuse their actions. Edwards actions were glamourised -or let's say, taken less seriously - because of his looks.

glstewart wrote:She wasn't just wandering around like a moron, she was looking for a bookstore (albeit, while she was preoccupied) and got lost. It could happen to anyone.

I thought Bella realised she was lost before she even saw those men but still failed to turn back around? I'm not sure if that's how it happened but if so, not a very logical choice and if not, my mistake :)

Back on topic, now :D

I don't see the similarities. Didn't Meyer say Bella was supposed to be like Elizabeth in terms of independance, wisdom/intelligence, strength of character, etc?

To me, Bella relied far too much on other people (Damsel in distress), she didn't seem very intelligent most of the time (her choices throughout the books showed this whole-heartedly) and what strength of character?? She usually did whatever other characters told her to do...especially Edward! Put Elizabeth in Bella's situation: do you really think Edward would get away with most of the things he does? Bella just brushes off all of his mistakes. Think of the following:
---Edward's stalking
---All of the decisions Edward makes on Bella's behalf (like her college applications)
---Edward asking Alice to kidnap Bella to keep her from Jacob
---Edward preventing her from seeing Jacob (she has to sneak around just to see him! Over-obsessive much, Edward??)
---Edward taking a piece from her car to prevent her from seeing Jacob

There are much more things to add to that list but really, can anyone honestly see Elizabeth putting up with ANY of that? Or see her make any of the same choices as Bella?

I'm not implying that to be strong/independent/intelligent, Bella should have been exactly like Elizabeth. I'm trying to show the distinction between the two and comprehend how any comparisons could be made between them.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Postby glstewart » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:46 pm

The similiarities are very loose, although they are there. When SM said Twilight was based on P&P, I don't think she meant it as a modern re-write. According to her personality, time and place, Elizabeth was a strong woman. According to her personality, time and place, Bella was a strong...uh - girl/woman :? . They both fell in love with men who were blinded by pride and prejudice, and they both helped those men overcome those weaknesses. To me, that's where the similarities end.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Postby moon sidhe » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:30 am

sunni wrote:The stalking was spooky regardless of whether or not he liked her. At that point in time, Edward didn't even know Bella and yet he had the nerve to creep into her room. I think the problem here is that because of Edward's dazzling looks, both Bella and the reader are masked from the real problem here. I don't think he should have been excused from what he did, just because he looked good. I'm sure there are stalkers/murderers/bad guys/etc out there who are good-looking...doesn't excuse their actions. Edwards actions were glamourised -or let's say, taken less seriously - because of his looks.


Yes, if in real life some guy crept into my room and watched me sleep, I would be really disturbed. I would spray mace in his face and call 911 no matter how "dazzling" he was. But I have to say I don't really take the book seriously enough to be bothered by it. It's a romance novel. It's not real. And let's give the proverbial reader here a little more credit. I don't really see the point in wasting my time and energy worrying about some person out there who may think it's ok to be stalked because of these books. Those people are few and far between. Most people have the good sense to know this is a romance novel, not a morality tale.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Postby waiting tobe dazzled » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:54 am

moon sidhe wrote:Yes, if in real life some guy crept into my room and watched me sleep, I would be really disturbed. I would spray mace in his face and call 911 no matter how "dazzling" he was. But I have to say I don't really take the book seriously enough to be bothered by it. It's a romance novel. It's not real. And let's give the proverbial reader here a little more credit. I don't really see the point in wasting my time and energy worrying about some person out there who may think it's ok to be stalked because of these books. Those people are few and far between. Most people have the good sense to know this is a romance novel, not a morality tale.


Exactly.
I have yet to figure out how people can analyze fictional characters and their stories so deeply. I understand discussing the topics, themes, events, etc. in deep detail but to dissect a character or their story line and find only faults makes me wonder why the person even bothers with the story and its characters that they obviously have so many problems with.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Postby debussygirl » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:33 am

glstewart wrote:The similiarities are very loose, although they are there. When SM said Twilight was based on P&P, I don't think she meant it as a modern re-write. According to her personality, time and place, Elizabeth was a strong woman. According to her personality, time and place, Bella was a strong...uh - girl/woman :? . They both fell in love with men who were blinded by pride and prejudice, and they both helped those men overcome those weaknesses. To me, that's where the similarities end.

Yes!! I completely agree with that.
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