Chapter 26 - Ethics

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Chapter 26 - Ethics

Postby Alphie » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:17 pm

Thank you to December for working on this discussion!

1. What does Bella mean when she tells Jake “I never had a choice”? Is she saying she had no choice about falling in love with Edward -- it was a kind of compulsion like imprinting? Or that her love for him is irrevocable: once she fell in love, she could never love someone else instead? Or does she just mean that given the depth of her passion for Edward there is no real choice to be made here? Do you think she is right about this?

2. Jake tells Bella that Edward was like a drug for her. Do you think he’s right? Is her love for Edward more like an addiction than a healthy emotion?

3. What is Bella getting at when she tells Jake that her love for him was overshadowed by something so strong it couldn’t exist in the rational world? Does she think her love for Edward is unnatural, something you could only feel for a mythical creature? Is the idea of two worlds -- the sane one humans think they live in and the mythical one of monsters and magic -- her way of explaining how she can love two people at once?

4. Jake acknowledges that it is too late now for Bella to be happy without Edward. But he insists that the human life she and he could have had together if she’d never met Edward would have been better for her than the life she will now have. Do you think he’s right?

5. Jake tells Bella that he’ll always be there waiting for her if she changes her mind -- even when she’s a vampire. Only a few weeks ago (Chapter 8), he told her that he’d rather see her dead than a vampire. Why do you think he feels differently now?
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Re: Chapter 26 - Ethics

Postby higgin704 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:07 pm

Alphie wrote:Thank you to December for working on this discussion!

1. What does Bella mean when she tells Jake “I never had a choice”? Is she saying she had no choice about falling in love with Edward -- it was a kind of compulsion like imprinting? Or that her love for him is irrevocable: once she fell in love, she could never love someone else instead? Or does she just mean that given the depth of her passion for Edward there is no real choice to be made here? Do you think she is right about this?

-- I go with option 3. I think that she loves him so that there is no real choice to be made. I absolutely think she is right. Although she cares for Jake very much, I think much of her conflict was spurned by guilt. Eventually, she had to go with her heart, in spite of the fact that she knew that it would hurt Jake, and that that, in turn, would hurt her.

2. Jake tells Bella that Edward was like a drug for her. Do you think he’s right? Is her love for Edward more like an addiction than a healthy emotion?

-- I can see how it would seem that way to Jake. But I don't believe that this is so. I think his perception is clouded by his love for her. I don't see Bella as any different from myself as a teen, or other teens, who believe that the world revolves around the one that they love.

3. What is Bella getting at when she tells Jake that her love for him was overshadowed by something so strong it couldn’t exist in the rational world? Does she think her love for Edward is unnatural, something you could only feel for a mythical creature? Is the idea of two worlds -- the sane one humans think they live in and the mythical one of monsters and magic -- her way of explaining how she can love two people at once?

-- No, I think it is very possible to love more than one person at a time. It happens often in the real world. Not only romantically, but in all relationships. I love my children equally. How? Because they are different creatures who all have different lovable qualitites to them. Bella loves Jake. She just loves Edward more, and differently. More passionately, more absolutely. I think her statement about it being so strong that it couldn't exist in a rational world is more her perception than fact.

4. Jake acknowledges that it is too late now for Bella to be happy without Edward. But he insists that the human life she and he could have had together if she’d never met Edward would have been better for her than the life she will now have. Do you think he’s right?

-- In a way, yes. There are things that Bella will have to give up to be with Edward. Everyone has to sacrifice in relationships, but in this case, one wonders if the sacrifice is too great. To stay human, and be with Edward, will be very difficult. She will age and change while he remains the same. She will remain in danger to some degree (just the association with vampires by a human is a dangerous thing - not counting non-vegetarian friends, Jasper's understandable lack of control, et al.). If she becomes a vampire, she gives up her friends and family. In either scenario, the Cullen family will need to eventually leave town. Bella would need to leave her life to be with them. In either scenario, eventually Charlie and co. will wise up to the fact that Edward is not aging. Bella would either need to reveal the Cullen family for what they are, or go into hiding with them, cutting off ties to friends and family. These are all complications to staying with Edward and, to a degree, Jake is correct. Life with him would be better/easier.

5. Jake tells Bella that he’ll always be there waiting for her if she changes her mind -- even when she’s a vampire. Only a few weeks ago (Chapter 8), he told her that he’d rather see her dead than a vampire. Why do you think he feels differently now?

-- I'm not sure. Maybe Jake was playing mind games in Chapter 8 to try to get her to stay away from the Cullens. It's something like Kindergarten wars... "If you don't let me play with your dollies, I am not going to be your friend." "Tough luck, you aren't getting my dolls." "OK, how about tomorrow. Can I have them then?"
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Re: Chapter 26 - Ethics

Postby rain.on.me » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:25 pm

1. What does Bella mean when she tells Jake “I never had a choice”? Is she saying she had no choice about falling in love with Edward -- it was a kind of compulsion like imprinting? Or that her love for him is irrevocable: once she fell in love, she could never love someone else instead? Or does she just mean that given the depth of her passion for Edward there is no real choice to be made here? Do you think she is right about this?
I think she meant that meeting and falling in love with Edward was fate, and that she could do nothing to change it. Yes, I think she is right. It's obvious that her and Edward were meant to be together and that their love clearly outshines any feelings between herself and Jake.

2. Jake tells Bella that Edward was like a drug for her. Do you think he’s right? Is her love for Edward more like an addiction than a healthy emotion?
I think maybe its some of both. She loves Edward so much and so she clung to him with every thought and emotion that she had, forming him into an addiction and a need of sorts.

3. What is Bella getting at when she tells Jake that her love for him was overshadowed by something so strong it couldn’t exist in the rational world? Does she think her love for Edward is unnatural, something you could only feel for a mythical creature? Is the idea of two worlds -- the sane one humans think they live in and the mythical one of monsters and magic -- her way of explaining how she can love two people at once?
Her love for Edward isn't unnatural, its Edward himself that is. Yes, I think that that is a good one way of explaining how she can love two people at once.

4. Jake acknowledges that it is too late now for Bella to be happy without Edward. But he insists that the human life she and he could have had together if she’d never met Edward would have been better for her than the life she will now have. Do you think he’s right?
I think it would have been better in the sense that she could have children, grow old, and essentially retain her humanity. But being by being with Edward, she experiences a happiness that could not be attained by being with anyone else.

5. Jake tells Bella that he’ll always be there waiting for her if she changes her mind -- even when she’s a vampire. Only a few weeks ago (Chapter 8), he told her that he’d rather see her dead than a vampire. Why do you think he feels differently now?
Hmm...I think he feels differently now because he's accepted that she will be becoming a vampire, and that his only option would be taking her back as one.
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Re: Chapter 26 - Ethics

Postby spookybell » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:57 am

1. What does Bella mean when she tells Jake “I never had a choice”? Is she saying she had no choice about falling in love with Edward -- it was a kind of compulsion like imprinting? Or that her love for him is irrevocable: once she fell in love, she could never love someone else instead? Or does she just mean that given the depth of her passion for Edward there is no real choice to be made here? Do you think she is right about this?
Oh - I think it is like imprinting for Bella. I think it was fate and it was always ment to be. Absolutly!


2. Jake tells Bella that Edward was like a drug for her. Do you think he’s right? Is her love for Edward more like an addiction than a healthy emotion?
Yep, I think Jacob is exactly right. Edward is Bella's drug and she is his. It probably isn't healthy either, but I'm okay with that. If I fell in love like Bella, healthy or not, I'd love my Edward.

3. What is Bella getting at when she tells Jake that her love for him was overshadowed by something so strong it couldn’t exist in the rational world? Does she think her love for Edward is unnatural, something you could only feel for a mythical creature? Is the idea of two worlds -- the sane one humans think they live in and the mythical one of monsters and magic -- her way of explaining how she can love two people at once?
I think what Bella means by something so strong, in the terms of fate, or God, or kismet, or imprenting, or meant to be... whatever you would define it as.


4. Jake acknowledges that it is too late now for Bella to be happy without Edward. But he insists that the human life she and he could have had together if she’d never met Edward would have been better for her than the life she will now have. Do you think he’s right?
Nope. I think Jacob is speking from his point of view, thinking a different life would be better for Bella. I don't believe that though. I believe that Bella and Edward were ment to be. It was too late the moment they met.

5. Jake tells Bella that he’ll always be there waiting for her if she changes her mind -- even when she’s a vampire. Only a few weeks ago (Chapter 8), he told her that he’d rather see her dead than a vampire. Why do you think he feels differently now?
I don't think he does. Not yet. I think he thinks of her as dead when she is a vampire... maybe that's why.
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Re: Chapter 26 - Ethics

Postby Immy93 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:47 pm

1. What does Bella mean when she tells Jake “I never had a choice”? Is she saying she had no choice about falling in love with Edward -- it was a kind of compulsion like imprinting? Or that her love for him is irrevocable: once she fell in love, she could never love someone else instead? Or does she just mean that given the depth of her passion for Edward there is no real choice to be made here? Do you think she is right about this?
If Edward hadn't confessed his feelings for her then they wouldn't be together. At the beginning of Twilight she was just curious about him, you never headr her say ONCE that she fancied him and even really liked him for that matter! If Edward had ignored ehr she would ahev got with Jake. Easily.

2. Jake tells Bella that Edward was like a drug for her. Do you think he’s right? Is her love for Edward more like an addiction than a healthy emotion?
Yes, I think it is a bit! When i first read Twilight I thought it was hopelessly romantic in the fact that they couldn't live without each other but as I read on throughout the other books it started to freak me out a bit! He was too protective over her and she listened to everything he said and put him before everything and everyone!

3. What is Bella getting at when she tells Jake that her love for him was overshadowed by something so strong it couldn’t exist in the rational world? Does she think her love for Edward is unnatural, something you could only feel for a mythical creature? Is the idea of two worlds -- the sane one humans think they live in and the mythical one of monsters and magic -- her way of explaining how she can love two people at once?
I think so! There pull towrds each other is not like a normal human relationship! I think Bella did well in describing it to Jake.

4. Jake acknowledges that it is too late now for Bella to be happy without Edward. But he insists that the human life she and he could have had together if she’d never met Edward would have been better for her than the life she will now have. Do you think he’s right?
Yes! She would have had a normal life and would have been happy! I don't think that Bella and Edward will ever be 100% happy because they want everything to eb perfect all the time and the reality is, nothing is ever perfect but they can't get over that. There is always some danger and there are always ways to make each other happier! They would be ahppier if they just accepted that and focussed on being in love no trying to make their love better. If Bella choce Jake she would have had a happy life, gone to university, got married had children, grown old and died. A healthy happy life! Not danger or complications, it would ahev been like Jake said it would, "As easy as breathing"

5. Jake tells Bella that he’ll always be there waiting for her if she changes her mind -- even when she’s a vampire. Only a few weeks ago (Chapter 8), he told her that he’d rather see her dead than a vampire. Why do you think he feels differently now?
He feels differently because he knows that time is runnign out! He's pulling out all the stops to get her to stay and I think it has finally hit him that he'll be losing her and he can't face being without her so he thinks he can love her while she's a vampire as well!
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Re: Chapter 26 - Ethics

Postby BlueStarlight » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:53 pm

My word! This is another of my favorite chapters! I just can't stop crying every time I read this one.

1. What does Bella mean when she tells Jake “I never had a choice”? Is she saying she had no choice about falling in love with Edward -- it was a kind of compulsion like imprinting? Or that her love for him is irrevocable: once she fell in love, she could never love someone else instead? Or does she just mean that given the depth of her passion for Edward there is no real choice to be made here? Do you think she is right about this? Bella is right here, there is no real choice for her. Edward has always been the one for her, and he is the one she can't live without.

2. Jake tells Bella that Edward was like a drug for her. Do you think he’s right? Is her love for Edward more like an addiction than a healthy emotion? I think that real true love is like an addiction, but a good one. People confuse love and lust all the time. I feel that when you find true love, your soul's true other half, that you become welded together to make the whole, and you can't be separated.

3. What is Bella getting at when she tells Jake that her love for him was overshadowed by something so strong it couldn’t exist in the rational world? Does she think her love for Edward is unnatural, something you could only feel for a mythical creature? Is the idea of two worlds -- the sane one humans think they live in and the mythical one of monsters and magic -- her way of explaining how she can love two people at once? This is a good question. I think that it is her way of telling him in not so many words that if they were meant to be together, then he would have Imprinted upon her already. She mentions Sam and Emily, and I think that made Jacob realize what she's talking about... that for her and Edward, their bond is like the Quileute Imprinting. Edward is her Destiny.

4. Jake acknowledges that it is too late now for Bella to be happy without Edward. But he insists that the human life she and he could have had together if she’d never met Edward would have been better for her than the life she will now have. Do you think he’s right? Yes, if there were no Edward, if he didn't exist,then I do believe she and Jacob would have ended up together. No Edward means no marriage, means no Renesmee, means no Jake-Nessie Imprinting.

5. Jake tells Bella that he’ll always be there waiting for her if she changes her mind -- even when she’s a vampire. Only a few weeks ago (Chapter 8), he told her that he’d rather see her dead than a vampire. Why do you think he feels differently now? Ooo, I think he was just trying to lighten the mood, and not let Bella see how much he was hurting. Then again, maybe he had come to his senses and realized that the "family" she was joining really wasn't all that bad, like she had been trying to tell him all along. He had just fought with with "evil" vampires; surely he could see how different they were from each other.
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Re: Chapter 26 - Ethics

Postby Cymbrelynn » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:33 pm

1. What does Bella mean when she tells Jake “I never had a choice”? Is she saying she had no choice about falling in love with Edward -- it was a kind of compulsion like imprinting? Or that her love for him is irrevocable: once she fell in love, she could never love someone else instead? Or does she just mean that given the depth of her passion for Edward there is no real choice to be made here? Do you think she is right about this?
-Yes, I think Bella is right about this. As much as she loves Jacob, Edward is the one she cannot live without. It's not a loss of choice thing the way that imprinting is but rather that the depths of the relationship and the bond forged between them is unbreakable. Edward and Bella simply cannot be without the other. It's not that once she fell in love with Edward she could never love someone else, she can as proved by the fact that she loves Jacob. In New Moon Bella was ready to give in and be with Jacob right before Alice returned. But, if she can have Edward, if she can be whole, than it's not a choice. It just is what is.

2. Jake tells Bella that Edward was like a drug for her. Do you think he’s right? Is her love for Edward more like an addiction than a healthy emotion?
No, I don't think Jake is right. I think at this point he doesn't really understand the true dynamic between Edward and Bella. He doesn't understand that they are two halves of a whole. For Bella, Edward is her life because their souls are one. Edward says the same about Bella. Their bond is something complex and magical and deeper beyond what is possible in our reality.

3. What is Bella getting at when she tells Jake that her love for him was overshadowed by something so strong it couldn’t exist in the rational world? Does she think her love for Edward is unnatural, something you could only feel for a mythical creature? Is the idea of two worlds -- the sane one humans think they live in and the mythical one of monsters and magic -- her way of explaining how she can love two people at once?
Bella and Edward's love is mystical and magical, something beyond the comprehension of us ordinary folk. In the rational world, such love doesn't exist. Here she is telling Jacob that she loves him in the sane, rational way that would have been everything she wanted if Edward did not exist.

4. Jake acknowledges that it is too late now for Bella to be happy without Edward. But he insists that the human life she and he could have had together if she’d never met Edward would have been better for her than the life she will now have. Do you think he’s right?
-No, Bella's true place in the world is as a Cullen. She never really fit into her human life. Not an outcast, but a bit of an outsider. The fact that such a clumsy human would be named "Beautiful Swan" is an allusion, I think, to the fact that Bella goes from being the awkward outsider to finding where she really shines.

5. Jake tells Bella that he’ll always be there waiting for her if she changes her mind -- even when she’s a vampire. Only a few weeks ago (Chapter 8), he told her that he’d rather see her dead than a vampire. Why do you think he feels differently now?
I think the reality of the situation is really hitting him now that it is so imminent. Also, the fight to protect Bella from the newborns and Victoria also probably really hit home to Jake how much he really can't bear to see her cease to exist. Vampire Bella is now clearly better than Dead Bella.
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Re: Chapter 26 - Ethics

Postby mistytwilight85 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:32 pm

1. What does Bella mean when she tells Jake “I never had a choice”? Is she saying she had no choice about falling in love with Edward -- it was a kind of compulsion like imprinting? Or that her love for him is irrevocable: once she fell in love, she could never love someone else instead? Or does she just mean that given the depth of her passion for Edward there is no real choice to be made here? Do you think she is right about this?

I think it is more like because of her depth of passion for him, there is no other choice. It's not a compulsion like imprinting. Also I think their love is irrevocable as well. She is just so in love with Edward, she can't love anyone else like that.

2. Jake tells Bella that Edward was like a drug for her. Do you think he’s right? Is her love for Edward more like an addiction than a healthy emotion?

I think Jacob is right. Her love for Edward is like an addiction. She can't live with out him. She just CAN'T. Look at what happened in New Moon, you could see she would be kind of happy, but she would never be truely happy with anyone else besides Edward. She even thought about dating Jake in NM but it was only to make him happy. She wasn't thinking about her own happiness.

3. What is Bella getting at when she tells Jake that her love for him was overshadowed by something so strong it couldn’t exist in the rational world? Does she think her love for Edward is unnatural, something you could only feel for a mythical creature? Is the idea of two worlds -- the sane one humans think they live in and the mythical one of monsters and magic -- her way of explaining how she can love two people at once?

I think in a way it is explaining how she can love 2 people at once. In the human world Jacob probably would have been her love. But when you add Vampires and werewolves, etc... it's not just human emotions anymore. It is a whole other story. Vampires have that attraction to humans, and I think that is another reason Bella was pulled in so easily. When Edward showed up, Bella went from the human world to the mythical world. You can't compete with a love like that.

4. Jake acknowledges that it is too late now for Bella to be happy without Edward. But he insists that the human life she and he could have had together if she’d never met Edward would have been better for her than the life she will now have. Do you think he’s right?

I think he is right. I mean she could have lived a normal life, without fear of crazed vampires trying to kill her all the time. She could grow old with her love and have kids and grandkids. It would be a normal loving life. No mythical creatures there to make it life harder. Edward even wishes that this could have happened for her. I really feel sorry for Jake. He would have been her perfect normal relationship. He would have made her very happy if Edward wasn't in the picture.

5. Jake tells Bella that he’ll always be there waiting for her if she changes her mind -- even when she’s a vampire. Only a few weeks ago (Chapter 8), he told her that he’d rather see her dead than a vampire. Why do you think he feels differently now?

He is madly in love with her. He said that at the time because he was afraid of her losing her soul/life, and he didn't know if she would be the same Bella. I think he is so madly in love with her that he would do ANYTHING to finally be with her, even if that means he would be marrying a vampire. He loves her alot.
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Re: Chapter 26 - Ethics

Postby KaylaMarieBlack7 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:43 am

1. What does Bella mean when she tells Jake “I never had a choice”? Is she saying she had no choice about falling in love with Edward -- it was a kind of compulsion like imprinting? Or that her love for him is irrevocable: once she fell in love, she could never love someone else instead? Or does she just mean that given the depth of her passion for Edward there is no real choice to be made here? Do you think she is right about this?
I think that its the fact that her love for him is irrevocable. Once she fell in love with him, I dont think its possible for her to love someone else. As much as she may want to try, she cant. I do think that she is right about this. If she wasnt then she would have been able to be with Jake.

2. Jake tells Bella that Edward was like a drug for her. Do you think he’s right? Is her love for Edward more like an addiction than a healthy emotion?
Yes. With Edward there is only one way things can turn out, and if Edward wouldnt do it, Bella would for sure have someone else do it. With drugs I think that the person who does its life is messed up, and can be for the rest of their life..Jake is healthy. He wont stop her heart from beating. Hes her sun.

3. What is Bella getting at when she tells Jake that her love for him was overshadowed by something so strong it couldn’t exist in the rational world? Does she think her love for Edward is unnatural, something you could only feel for a mythical creature? Is the idea of two worlds -- the sane one humans think they live in and the mythical one of monsters and magic -- her way of explaining how she can love two people at once?
I think that is what she thinks. She started to fall in love with Jake when she didnt know anything about him being a werewolf. When he was the one putting the pieces of her heart back together, after it had been shattered into like a million pieces. She still loves him even though he is still a werewolf, but she already loves someone in the mythical world. She doesnt think she can love 2 people from the same world.

4. Jake acknowledges that it is too late now for Bella to be happy without Edward. But he insists that the human life she and he could have had together if she’d never met Edward would have been better for her than the life she will now have. Do you think he’s right?
No. If she would have never met Edward, He wouldnt have left, and she probably wouldnt have gone to see Jake that day. Of course, she would still probably meet him because Charlie is Billys friend, but it probably wouldnt have been the same.

5. Jake tells Bella that he’ll always be there waiting for her if she changes her mind -- even when she’s a vampire. Only a few weeks ago (Chapter 8), he told her that he’d rather see her dead than a vampire. Why do you think he feels differently now?
I dont think he felt that way at all. I think that he just said that because he was really mad. People say things when they are mad that they dont mean. But he could have changed him mind because he has gotten to know the vampires a little more. I think he thinks Bella will still be the same Bella, even if she is pale and her heart isnt beating.
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Re: Chapter 26 - Ethics

Postby Twilove » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:30 pm

1. What does Bella mean when she tells Jake “I never had a choice”? Is she saying she had no choice about falling in love with Edward -- it was a kind of compulsion like imprinting? Or that her love for him is irrevocable: once she fell in love, she could never love someone else instead? Or does she just mean that given the depth of her passion for Edward there is no real choice to be made here? Do you think she is right about this?
I think that when she fell in love with Edward is was a little like imprinting because she saw him once and knew that somehow that she had to be with him but that dosent mean thats she couldent fall in love with somebody else obviously


2. Jake tells Bella that Edward was like a drug for her. Do you think he’s right? Is her love for Edward more like an addiction than a healthy emotion?
I dont think so i guess you can say it is like a drug since they both cant live without each other but it's definetly healthy there soulmates and a day without each other is like there not really living

3. What is Bella getting at when she tells Jake that her love for him was overshadowed by something so strong it couldn’t exist in the rational world? Does she think her love for Edward is unnatural, something you could only feel for a mythical creature? Is the idea of two worlds -- the sane one humans think they live in and the mythical one of monsters and magic -- her way of explaining how she can love two people at once? I think since no human before her has fallen in love with a vampire and vice versa that to anyone else in the world that kind of love just couldent exist and it is kind of unnatural vampires arnt supposed to exist

4. Jake acknowledges that it is too late now for Bella to be happy without Edward. But he insists that the human life she and he could have had together if she’d never met Edward would have been better for her than the life she will now have. Do you think he’s right?Yeah he is right if Edward and his family were never near Forks when she moved there Bella and Jacob would have met and definetly would have been together and happy

5. Jake tells Bella that he’ll always be there waiting for her if she changes her mind -- even when she’s a vampire. Only a few weeks ago (Chapter 8), he told her that he’d rather see her dead than a vampire. Why do you think he feels differently now?because i think he finally understood why it was kind of necasary for Bella to be changed into a vampire with all the danger that is attracted to her someone like that shouldent be human like Bella said and that he loved her so much he was gonna respect her choice no matter what
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