The Universe

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Re: The Universe

Postby ChristinasHeadache » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:52 pm

All I know on this subject is the universe had a beginning. It was like 1 day hydrogen and carbon molecules decided to hang out together. When they bonded, BANG. The universe. None of it makes sense to me. Some will disagree with you aimee and say God has everything to do with it because he created it. Some will agree and say he doesn't exist. I don't group myself in either category, because the truth is... I have no idea what is true. lol.
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Re: The Universe

Postby CéliAmbre » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:25 pm

I'm back for now. Thank you so much for your contribution, Goodnight Elizabeth and aimee_xbella. So your point, Goodnight Elizabeth, is that colours are just light. Yes, I learned about this physical thing (and by the way, I'm in 9th grade too =)) I like the idea about this that if there is a different light on, say, a banana, it is not just my impression that the banana has changed, but that the banana really is not the same as it was before, because before it was also just all colours+light, and now it is all colours+a different light, so it has changed, not just it's surroundings. I hope I formulated this the right way^^ I think that what I exactly meant, although I am not quite sure anymore because your answer got me confused whether, really, it wasn't exactly the thing that I meant...But I am still going to explain what I meant before, although maybe the spectrum and the light is the only conclusion we may come to...I'm sure that all of you that are interested in this quind of science know about the tree in a forest. If not, here's a recap: There's a tree in a forest, and everything that has ears is either dead or far, far away, miles away. (There was for example an atomic bomb that killed everyone). And a tree falls. The "thud" that it makes produces vibrations that trravel in the air, and also through the ground, and get smaller and smaller. After travelling for a bit, they are so weak they stop. They have not reached ears nor brain. So although the potential for sound, i.e. the vibrations exist, there is no sound, because the actual sound only forms when the brain decodes it. And basically what I meant before was that colours also only exist when the wavelengths reach a brain. But now I think that Goodnight Elizabeth has explained it: it doesn't work quite the way sounds do, but there are similarities. Thank you again, Goodnight Elizabeth.

About what aimee_xbella said: Wouah, the universe, expanding? I did hear that before, but I don't know much about it. I think it's fantastically interesting, also what you said, about what it's expanding into. It would be great if you, or someone else could make some more research about this. I will definetely also look it up. Ooh, I knew it would be great to discuss this with Twilighters on the Lex, after all we are the "most attractive, intelligent, exciting, and dedicated fands in the world" (according to Stephenie Meyer, and I agree with her).

So now I'm starting to wonder if I should still post the next couple of my questions because this is really a lot, and it's HUGE. But here we go:
There is this theory, that, I believe, has never been proven wrong, that if there would be no time, there would be no material. You know how the insides of atoms spin? Electrons? Protons, Neutrons, everything moves and spins so quickly (or at least the electrons definetely do)? Well, if there would be no time, or time would be stoped, they would stop spinning, and DANG! atoms would still exist, but since there is so much space between the different electrons and protons etc., you could put your hand through everything (well, in theory. practically you couldn't, because your hand wouldn't exist anymore as a material either, and you wouldn't be able to move it anyway since time has stopped).

Aaaaaand: what do you think about Einsteins theory, that we could travel in time? Do you like the idea? I like it, in a way, and since I watched about half of a movie about it, I find it very interesting, but this goes against everything that humans have always believed: What is done cannot be undone, the past is the past, and so on.I know it's not the newest of ideas, but I still find it amazing. I will have to finish watching that movie sometime.

Or did you know that apparently objects have no fixed place until the moment they are observed, i.e. by a camera or an eye?
Or something that is similar to the cat in the box( which has never been tested, because really, it's impossible fo humans to test it. And for those of you who don't know it: A cat in a closed box without cameras or other living things seeing or hearing it. And there is a 50%/50% chance that it dies, for example because of a poison that only kills half the living things that take it in. And until the moment that someone looks for the cat, the cat is neither dead nor alive. It is inbetween. The exact moment that it is verrified whether it's dead or not, the cat either then is dead, or not. Before that, it is both, and neither. This has mathematically been proven by a Nobel-Prize winner mathematician, Schrödinger. You can look it up any where, for example on Wikipedia (although I know many people don't trust Wikipedia, but it has been proven that it's more acurate than people believe), here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat) and what I actually meant before going on and on about a cat was: that atoms can appear and disappear, although we don't know where they go to. And this can happen while we look at it, for once.

Holy, i feel like in an TOK class (Theory of knowledge), but better, because I am not constantly told to shut up and let the others talk =)
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Re: The Universe

Postby LipsForeverSealed » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:32 pm

Oh I was at like a talk thing about the universe today!
Its scary and cool all at once, we're so small and odd on our planet here....
I mean it makes you think why do we even bother with all of it ... all of this...?

hey we're all made up of like stars! :mrgreen:
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Re: The Universe

Postby CéliAmbre » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:44 pm

Hey ChristinasHeadache: I have no idea whether God exists either or not either. But I think the point is not proving that he exists (exept for some very religious mathematicians) to most believers, the point is to have a sense, a reason, something that explains everything people cannot explain by themeselves, from big scientific things to little coincidences in everyday life. I think the idea is beautiful, and I am happy for everyone that has this belief that gives them strength, but what I don't like is when people try to enforce their belief onto others, no matter whether their belief is a positive yes or a certain no or something else to an existance that cannot be proven in any form yet, and I don't like people that use the idea of God to achieve things-to make people do things and so on. That is abuse of the church, if people in church do it, it is crime if sects do it, and so on.
I myself don't believe in God nor anything else (I do wear a cross around my neck because it reminds me of positive things, the time I spend in church, with my mum, at my confirmation, etc., and in case I will need this belief one day, but it does not stand for my belief. Do you think that's okay? Or do some of you, because you're religious, or exactly becouse you are not, think that's wrong? Because I have never asked anyone in my real life about that). Now that I think about it, why? My mum, who brought me up, and my sister, who I am very close to, believe, so why do I not? I have once read that the power to believe is in your genes, in the so-called God gene, see this---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene, do you girls believe that? Or does your belief depend on how you were brought up? Or do you just loose belief if bad things happen to you when you are a certain type of person, or does your belief just get stronger if you are another sort of person?

I get much of what I know form my maths teacher, from my step-dad, some from the movie "What the Bleep do We Know?" about quantum physics, although I do know that this movie has been heavily debated because it has been made by some kind of sect, some from a book my mommy gave me, by Michel Serres and Nayla Farouki, (but I think there is no english version of it; it's an encyclopedia of exact sciences) and some just by ideas in my head that I look up online. Does any of you have another good book you could recommend, or a movie? Anything?
Last edited by CéliAmbre on Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Universe

Postby CéliAmbre » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:08 pm

Keep on writing, everyone, this is great. If I really bring up too much at once, in a too chaotic way, please do warn me. I'll try to be less enthusiastic, it's just that I'm trying to bring all my ideas down first.
Welcome at our humble little new thread (okay, new, but not so humble...rather extraordinary^^), LipsForeverSealed. I agree most of all with your point at how small we are. That's something we feel when we look into the stars, and although your thought about why we bother with all of this sounds very depressed, I get what you mean. We are soooo insignificant. And yet, I think we have learned so much in such little time. Although our earth is also small and insignificant compared to the whole univeres, I think we know enough to give our best now to make it the best possible place for all of us----> we are small, but we are here, the earth is the biggest thing we can cope with untill now, so we should treat it well. (And when I read a (short) story like There Will Come Soft Rains by Ray Bradbury which is about the earth without humans, in the future, because technology, atom bombs to be exact, killed us all, with only the destroyed nature and the technology left with no one to serve (not the nature, I mean the technology. I don't believe that nature is there to serve us at all), it makes me think that we cannot let this happen-before thinking about moving to the moon or to mars or going even further away from the earth, we should manage what we have here, that is our job.

I recently read a short story (that I actually didn't like much at all) called Meteor, by John Wyndham, and it was little, tiny, tiny, tiny aliens coming onto eart, small as worms. It made me wonder how things this little can think, and build things, and so on( I mean, of course they can't. But it still made me think), but then I realized...we aren't that much bigger at all, compared to the Universe with a capital U, we also have millions of cells, like them, we are build up of different elements, just like worms, and we can do so much, especially since we've only been living for a heartbeat since the Universe started existing, if at all. But then again, on the other side, we can't do anything at all, compared to the greatnesses that nature can do.

I am going to bed now, so good night to everyone, see you tomorrow. And I hope that we will not get in trouble to swaying of into philosophy when we're supposed to talk about sciences...Although, on the other side, philosophy is a science, and the Universe does not only mean science anyway (I think this is part of what (my) growing up means. Realizing there are so many more sides to everything than just black and white).
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Re: The Universe

Postby debussygirl » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:36 pm

aimee_xbella wrote:And really, God has nothing to do with this forum :).

I would like to disagree. If this is about the universe and how it was created, then God should be included, considering He is a theory of how this universe was created. Personally, I firmly believe there is a God. It doesn't make sense to me that a whole bunch of nothing just came together to create a world so perfect. It's like tearing up a piece of paper, throwing it in the air, and expecting it to land in the correct order to me.
CéliAmbre wrote: I have once read that the power to believe is in your
genes, in the so-called God gene, see this--->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene, do you girls believe that? Or
does your belief depend on how you were brought up? Or do you just
loose belief if bad things happen to you when you are a certain type of
person, or does your belief just get stronger if you are another sort
of person?

I don't think that some people have genes to believe in God and others don't. I don't think that makes sense. Because I know people who were raised by atheists, but have converted and believe in God. Then there are some others I know who have parents that are both deeply religious, but they just don't seem to care and don't believe. I don't know what exactly makes people believe or not, but I don't think it's put into our genes as we will or we won't believe (or fall somewhere in-between).
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Re: The Universe

Postby ChristinasHeadache » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:02 pm

Belief gets some people through life. Disbelief gets others through life. I agree debussy, what are the odds of the universe exploding of it's own accord? Why did it happen when it happened, rather than happening 10 minutes before it did? The amazing part is the universe is expanding at a specific rate of time, if it was to expand any slower it would implode on itself, and any faster all matter would have dispersed by now. (Spoken by Sir Bernard Lovell. This is scientific evidence.) Since this is a thread about the universe I won't get into depth on religious aspects of it. I am just satisfied knowing, I lived life as best as I knew how, and if it wasn't good enough I believe that the Almighty will just destroy what does not fall in line with His plans. I will not continue to live on after death either way. (This is not fact or evidence, but personal belief.)
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Re: The Universe

Postby aimee_xbella » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:31 pm

Eh, let's not push religion, I think it's a personal choice/opinion. But I don't think we should discuss God or religion because that'll just sidetrack and create chaos.
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Re: The Universe

Postby Goodnight Elizabeth » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:48 pm

aimee_xbella wrote:Eh, let's not push religion, I think it's a personal choice/opinion. But I don't think we should discuss God or religion because that'll just sidetrack and create chaos.


I concur. Squabbling over religion could possibly get the thread deleted. No one wants that, right?

Let's keep the discussion on topic. It's a SCIENTIFIC discussion on the Universe. Carry on...
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Re: The Universe

Postby ChristinasHeadache » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:24 am

Goodnight Elizabeth wrote:
aimee_xbella wrote:Eh, let's not push religion, I think it's a personal choice/opinion. But I don't think we should discuss God or religion because that'll just sidetrack and create chaos.


I concur. Squabbling over religion could possibly get the thread deleted. No one wants that, right?

Let's keep the discussion on topic. It's a SCIENTIFIC discussion on the Universe. Carry on...


The topic of discussion is The Universe. I assume that means EVERYTHING contained in the universe. Does the title say SCIENCE ONLY NOT PERSONAL BELIEF? NO. It says The Universe. How is it right for one to decide that a part of the universe should not be mentioned here because they don't want it here, when others think it belongs here and want it here? Which way is the right way to go?
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