Edward Cullen #2

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Re: Edward Cullen #2

Postby cullensallovamybinda » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:38 pm

thank you that is what i said!!! she realy should MS (sorry i cant remember the other name for it) like books for the whole series.. though NM might be a bit on the uneventfull sid eif you read that post up yonder^
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Re: Edward Cullen #2

Postby Visitor » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:43 pm

December, don’t kill me please . . .

navarre wrote:Okay everyone, I have a question. Now, if this has been asked in an earlier post in this thread, please forgive me. I'm lazy and did not want to scroll through 90+ pages to see.

In my local paper is a huge article on the film Twilight. In this article a girl made the comment that she sees Edward & Bella's relationship realistically and feels that Bella was never her true self with Edward - that she had to always act & be perfect for Edward to love her. She also stated that Bella acted herself with Jacob and could be herself with Jacob.
Naturally I disagree. I think Edward accepted Bella 100% and I do not feel that he demanded Bella to be perfect for him. I basically feel this is self explanatory but what do you lovely darlings think?

Comments?


Off Topic (slightly): I find this interesting. Because one of the things that drew me to Edward is the way he loves Bella for exactly who she is. He thinks she’s perfect even when she does not see perfection in herself. Out of everyone in the series, Edward fights hardest of all to keep her exactly the way that she is. And yet he’s constantly accused of trying to change her. Or worse, encouraging her to change herself.

But how is Bella more “herself” with Jacob than she is with Edward? That would require us looking back at who Bella was prior to meeting both boys, wouldn't it? Because even though SM does not give us a lot of back story surrounding Bella’s former life, we do get enough to know that for starters, Bella was a relatively closed off person before she ever came to Forks. She was quiet and shy. Introspective and mature way beyond her years. With Jacob, she may have done more “teenage stuff", but before Jacob, was she ever really interested in any of that? Did she ever express a desire to ride motor bikes and jump off cliffs? Did she ever strike anyone as a go-getter? A thrill-seeker? I wouldn’t say so. And yet, we would consider those traits her “true self”? If anything, she was behaving in ways that were outside of her norm. Wouldn’t acting outside of the norm be a sign that someone is being less than true to him or her self?

So she was able to talk to Jacob . . . . I would only find that fact impressive if the bulk of their conversations did not involve or evolve around Edward. But it did. So I don’t. That, plus the fact that Bella was acting “recklessly” for the sole purpose of hearing another guys voice, does not lend itself to a strong argument in favor of Bella’s alleged “true self” coming out only in Jacob's company. I might be inclined to think differently if there was ever a point prior to meeting Edward (or after meeting him) where Bella voiced a desire or longing for a foot loose and fancy free life.

Now that is not to belie the fact that there IS a great deal of gravity in her relationship with Edward. But how can there not be when their relationship defies nature, death and in some cases good sense. Jacob can be with Bella and not have to worry about killing her, so that’s bound to lend some levity to their interactions with one another.

I think people sometimes confuse gravity of circumstance with gravity in a relationship. For example: If I’m tiptoeing through a grave yard with the love of my life, no matter how strong that love, the conversation is still going to be way different than if I’m walking through a field of flowers with the guy I just met from up the street. Basically I’m saying that Bella and Edward had to contend with some pretty hefty issues during the course of their relationship. Issues that most couples would never even have conceived of. And yet, throughout, they somehow managed to maintain their strong attachment to one another.

Someone else already mentioned this, but Bella is very open with Edward (although the opposite cannot always be said for him). For pete sakes, Bella was able to look Edward straight in the eye and admit to being in love with another man. Then had the audacity to expect comfort and solace because of it! If that aint being one’s self around the man you love, then I don’t know what is. 8-)

Bella was no more insecure with Edward than any other teenage girl would be when dating a handsome guy. In fact, I’m sure that if she had started out the story as enamored with Jacob as she was with Edward that the same would be true.

The important factor is that Edward loved her for who she was and never required her to change. He never asked her to. He never even wanted her to. And Bella may have wanted to be perfect for Edward (who here would not want to be a better version of themselves?) but she never tried to be perfect. She never behaved in a false or superficial way. She never tried to wear sexy clothes or high heels or eat less or pretend to like what he liked. She had no problems disagreeing with him when it came to any number of issues; including music, literature, religion, sex, mortality . . . Yeah. So suffice it to say I disagree with the girl in that article.

On Topic: One of Edward’s best traits is that he loves Bella for who she is. :D
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Re: Edward Cullen #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:23 pm

i know you wrote a lot, but here's my incredibly short answer to it.

i am not sure that bella is more herself with either - she is simply two different selves. there's edward's bella and jacob's bella. but i DO think that she is more relaxed around jacob, she doesn't watch herself the way she does with edward. this is certainly more evident in the first three books than in the fourth, where she's pretty comfortable with edward (finally, i mean, they are only married!)

but i think bella's more comfortable with jacob because her love for him grew out of friendship. their relationship is equal, or, if anything, she has more power. but with edward, it was a love at first sight, so she's self-conscious, which is only natural, and also he has more power in that relationship, just because he's a more dominant person in general. not that that's a bad thing, he's just more dominant.
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Re: Edward Cullen #2

Postby Visitor » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:46 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:but i think bella's more comfortable with jacob because her love for him grew out of friendship. their relationship is equal, or, if anything, she has more power. but with edward, it was a love at first sight, so she's self-conscious, which is only natural, and also he has more power in that relationship, just because he's a more dominant person in general. not that that's a bad thing, he's just more dominant.

Believe it or not, I agree.:)
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Re: Edward Cullen #2

Postby twilightroxmysox » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:53 am

Hey its really annoying I'm in Australia and I really like this forum and you make a lots of awesome points I want to say something about. But you say all this stuff while I'm asleep or at school, its probably the time difference.

I think Bella was more herself with Edward. I agree with Visitor that Bella was more herself with Edward but she was more normal with Jacob. Bella was more self concsious around Edward because she loved him and didn't know why he loved her so she was worried that she could do something wrong to stop him liking her. But she was very open with him all the time anyway. Even if she was more concerned about being perfect Edward thought she was perfect anyway. I think if she was more relaxed around Jacob its probably because she didn't care as much if he liked her or didn't worry as much because she didn't think he was incredibly perfect and way better than her like she thought Edward was.

I would love the whole series from Edward's perspective. Someone said in New Moon Edward wuld have been way sadder because at least Bella had Jacob. I would just like to say that Bella thought Edward didn't care about her so she had to deal with that too. Although Edward always thought she would get over him so it might have sucked for him too. But Bella thought the same that he would get over her. Sorry I'm rambling and I don't think I'm really saying anything... I need more sleep.
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Re: Edward Cullen #2

Postby Dark_Heart » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:17 am

I'll just say this. Bella only started spending time with Jacob because Charlie noticed her melancholy. I wish my parents would tell me to go out and get in trouble... Regardless, when she was with Jacob she was definately NOT herself. She was reckless and sometimes stupid, just to hear a vanished man's voice. I don't think she was ever herself around Jacob till Edward came back... and Jacob didn't like it much did he?

It's ok though, Jacob should just die anyways. lmao.
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Re: Edward Cullen #2

Postby Lunna-san » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:47 am

Dark_Heart wrote:I'll just say this. Bella only started spending time with Jacob because Charlie noticed her melancholy. I wish my parents would tell me to go out and get in trouble... Regardless, when she was with Jacob she was definately NOT herself. She was reckless and sometimes stupid, just to hear a vanished man's voice. I don't think she was ever herself around Jacob till Edward came back... and Jacob didn't like it much did he?

It's ok though, Jacob should just die anyways. lmao.


Dark_Heart, please, don't mess with the Team jacob girls. It's not healthy, dear. :lol:

I think you took just NM as reference and made some good points. Bella was very depressed in NM. But she was, by the end, getting her back together. I think she could be okay again, with time. If she would be able to forget Edward or not, it's another discussion.

Back to the question, i think she acts different because they are two different guys, with different personalities. And she has different relationships with them too. Edward is her MATE. Bella always saw him this way. Jacob. most of the time, it's her friend, her buddy, her little brother. I know in the end of Eclipse, she realized he was a bit more. In the end, we are talking about two different things. This doesn't mean she was pretending with one of the other. This is ridiculous.

Edward loves Bella by the way she is, vampire or human. She just don't need to pretend. I think she never tried. If she did, she could act as she was some cool girl, with tons of friends and social life. So why would she pretend to be bookish and shy?
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Re: Edward Cullen #2

Postby cullensallovamybinda » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:20 am

hahah its so true.. i had a spat with a team jake girl (holdingoutforjacob ;) ) and i lost :O i dont normaly lose but she put up a good fight well done :lol:

and for this topic i think bella has two sides. the mushyselfless side with edward and the more immuture and daring side with jake. its just who she is and what she finds natural with them.
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Re: Edward Cullen #2

Postby navarre » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:39 pm

Visitor wrote:December, don’t kill me please . . .

navarre wrote:Okay everyone, I have a question. Now, if this has been asked in an earlier post in this thread, please forgive me. I'm lazy and did not want to scroll through 90+ pages to see.

In my local paper is a huge article on the film Twilight. In this article a girl made the comment that she sees Edward & Bella's relationship realistically and feels that Bella was never her true self with Edward - that she had to always act & be perfect for Edward to love her. She also stated that Bella acted herself with Jacob and could be herself with Jacob.
Naturally I disagree. I think Edward accepted Bella 100% and I do not feel that he demanded Bella to be perfect for him. I basically feel this is self explanatory but what do you lovely darlings think?

Comments?


Off Topic (slightly): I find this interesting. Because one of the things that drew me to Edward is the way he loves Bella for exactly who she is. He thinks she’s perfect even when she does not see perfection in herself. Out of everyone in the series, Edward fights hardest of all to keep her exactly the way that she is. And yet he’s constantly accused of trying to change her. Or worse, encouraging her to change herself.

But how is Bella more “herself” with Jacob than she is with Edward? That would require us looking back at who Bella was prior to meeting both boys, wouldn't it? Because even though SM does not give us a lot of back story surrounding Bella’s former life, we do get enough to know that for starters, Bella was a relatively closed off person before she ever came to Forks. She was quiet and shy. Introspective and mature way beyond her years. With Jacob, she may have done more “teenage stuff", but before Jacob, was she ever really interested in any of that? Did she ever express a desire to ride motor bikes and jump off cliffs? Did she ever strike anyone as a go-getter? A thrill-seeker? I wouldn’t say so. And yet, we would consider those traits her “true self”? If anything, she was behaving in ways that were outside of her norm. Wouldn’t acting outside of the norm be a sign that someone is being less than true to him or her self?

So she was able to talk to Jacob . . . . I would only find that fact impressive if the bulk of their conversations did not involve or evolve around Edward. But it did. So I don’t. That, plus the fact that Bella was acting “recklessly” for the sole purpose of hearing another guys voice, does not lend itself to a strong argument in favor of Bella’s alleged “true self” coming out only in Jacob's company. I might be inclined to think differently if there was ever a point prior to meeting Edward (or after meeting him) where Bella voiced a desire or longing for a foot loose and fancy free life.

Now that is not to belie the fact that there IS a great deal of gravity in her relationship with Edward. But how can there not be when their relationship defies nature, death and in some cases good sense. Jacob can be with Bella and not have to worry about killing her, so that’s bound to lend some levity to their interactions with one another.

I think people sometimes confuse gravity of circumstance with gravity in a relationship. For example: If I’m tiptoeing through a grave yard with the love of my life, no matter how strong that love, the conversation is still going to be way different than if I’m walking through a field of flowers with the guy I just met from up the street. Basically I’m saying that Bella and Edward had to contend with some pretty hefty issues during the course of their relationship. Issues that most couples would never even have conceived of. And yet, throughout, they somehow managed to maintain their strong attachment to one another.

Someone else already mentioned this, but Bella is very open with Edward (although the opposite cannot always be said for him). For pete sakes, Bella was able to look Edward straight in the eye and admit to being in love with another man. Then had the audacity to expect comfort and solace because of it! If that aint being one’s self around the man you love, then I don’t know what is. 8-)

Bella was no more insecure with Edward than any other teenage girl would be when dating a handsome guy. In fact, I’m sure that if she had started out the story as enamored with Jacob as she was with Edward that the same would be true.

The important factor is that Edward loved her for who she was and never required her to change. He never asked her to. He never even wanted her to. And Bella may have wanted to be perfect for Edward (who here would not want to be a better version of themselves?) but she never tried to be perfect. She never behaved in a false or superficial way. She never tried to wear sexy clothes or high heels or eat less or pretend to like what he liked. She had no problems disagreeing with him when it came to any number of issues; including music, literature, religion, sex, mortality . . . Yeah. So suffice it to say I disagree with the girl in that article.

On Topic: One of Edward’s best traits is that he loves Bella for who she is. :D


Vistor, you have a wonderful way of articulating your thoughts. I admire those who can. I could not have said what you just said any better than that! It is hard for me sometimes to put my thoughts from my head to key stroke without taking everyone to Omaha via China. :lol: :lol: :oops:

You and HOFJ and Esme echo and malaz are great in your posts and I always look forward to reading them. (Oh, I do love to read everyone elses, too) I love this forum and I enjoy the fact that there are so many others that share their love for these wonderful books.

It's really facinating how all of us can read and see the same thing yet come in from so many different angles and with so many different thoughts and opinions.

Like, our Edward is beyond description and Jacob is beyond cool. 8-) There, I think that covers our hot guys!!

Sorry about the ramble - told you I would take you on a long trip to nowhere. :lol: ;)
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Re: Edward Cullen #2

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:43 pm

Dark_Heart wrote:I'll just say this. Bella only started spending time with Jacob because Charlie noticed her melancholy. I wish my parents would tell me to go out and get in trouble... Regardless, when she was with Jacob she was definately NOT herself. She was reckless and sometimes stupid, just to hear a vanished man's voice. I don't think she was ever herself around Jacob till Edward came back... and Jacob didn't like it much did he?

It's ok though, Jacob should just die anyways. lmao.


Dark_Heart, i would never ever say that any character should just die, out of respect for the others around me and respect for SM's hard work. could you show the same courtesy and respect please? it's what keeps these forums going. thanks!

Visitor, i disagree with you sooo often, but i have such a hard time doing it, because it's difficult to come up with posts that are as coherent and intelligent as yours are! plus, i have a hard time disagreeing in general, when what you say DOES make sense usually.

bella is 100% herself with jacob. in new moon, it's true that she wasn't herself completely, but she was more with him than with anyone else certainly. after new moon, in eclipse and BD, she was completely and 100% comfortable and herself with him. she doesn't bother to hide her faults from him, the way she does with edward.

now that's not to say that their relationship is "better" in any way. just different.
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