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Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:32 am
by DudeRocksTheTwilight
Tell me when you finish that fic Viola. ;)

And yes, I'm sure Joham is destroyed. Hopefully, Nahuel warns the sisters not to join.

Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:33 am
by Annabel Lee
The Dark Knight wrote:So what do you see as the Volturi's next move after BD?

I agree that the Volturi are going to be going after Joham and that they are going to be in full spin-doctoring mode.

How I think they will react is that their official story will be that the Volturi were lured to Washington by Irina's false report, due to her anger with the Cullens. They investigated the report, found that the Cullens had done nothing wrong and did not represent a danger to vampire society and secrecy and moved on to confront the danger represented by Joham, something that even Joham's son wasn't too upset about. They merely did their job, and were quite relieved to find that their dear, dear friends the Cullens hadn't betrayed them by breaking vampire law. It was quite distressing to hear that they had, and in fact they hadn't believed it before they were shone the evidence by the traitorous Irina. After seeing Irina's false evidence, their despair over this apparent treachery by one of their dearest friends might have lead them to go a bit overboard... but really, it was quite a relief to see that the Cullens were innocent. Did they mention that Carlisle is Aro's absolute favorite non-Volturi vampire? Of course Aro absolutely adores Alice and Bella and Edward as well, he even invited them to join the guard. They would make wonderful additions and they have already been so helpful to the Volturi's mission, like when they helped the Volturi deal with that renegade vampire who created an out of control army of newborns. Really, Aro personally feels that the Cullens almost are an auxiliary to the Volturi guard.

And so on. Not everyone will believe that, but enough vampires will want to believe it that they will probably be able to largely mitigate the effects of the encounter, use it to show their commitment to justice, etc. I also expect that over the next several decades they might try more subtle techniques of trying to bring the Cullens into their fold as a variation on destroying one's enemy by making them a friend. I wouldn't be surprised if Aro sent a nice letter to Carlisle detailing what they learned from their questioning of Joham, since Aro know that the Cullens have been concerned about what Renesmee's future holds this could be a nice gesture and something else the Volturi could use to prop up their "good guy" image.

Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:51 pm
by Chernaudi
I have some questions to pose: What if one of the Volturi created an "immortal child"? Would there be a double standard, especially if one of their leaders did it?

And what if humans found out that the Volturi exhisted, what would both sides response be? NATO's combined armed forces out number the Volturi by god knows how many for each Volturi member, and there's reportedly only 32 Volturi in total. I know that vampires are immortal to humans in hand to hand/close quarters combat, but are vampires immue to firearms? Handguns and small caliber rifles, maybe, but maybe not to heavy machine gun fire(caliber .50/12.7 mm or above) or automatic cannons(machine guns caliber 20mm or above), especially when 30mm depleted urainum ammuniton can destroy modern tanks.

And who knows how damaging air power could be to the Volturi, namely precision strikes against their strong hold?

Does anyone have thoughs on the chances of survival of the Volturi against a full out military strike?

Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:22 pm
by dandyvampgirl_13
Chernaudi wrote:What if one of the Volturi created an "immortal child"?

Are you talking about the demon-spawn Renesmee kind, or the literal vampire baby kind?
Aro likes to experiment, so they did create vampire babies to see what they were capable of and whether they could be taught. However, they always destroyed the experiments (for lack of a better word, typing 'destroyed the babies' just seems wrong) once they were done so there would be no evidence.
For the demon-spawn kind, I assume it would be the same as above. Experiment to Aro's heart's content, then destroy the evidence. Its not really a double standard, doing it for research purpose. They studied the vampire babies before they outlawed them, so they weren't breaking one of their own laws yet.

Chernaudi wrote:Does anyone have thoughs on the chances of survival of the Volturi against a full out military strike?

First off, its intensely unlikely that humans would find out about the Volturi, but for the questions sake, lets take a hypothetical case.
U.S. finds out about Volturi. Gets permission/help from Italy (And the Vatican! Can't see the Catholics liking having a bunch of blood sucking demons so near the Pope) and unleashes a tactical strike on Volterra Castle after evacuating humans.
Its mentioned somewhere that vampires would have to hold still long enough for a bomb to hit them, and that would probably work. Its a bit like the Transformers only being damaged by Saber rounds and up (Not sure how that works, the most I know about weapons is what I've learned from Halo). A sufficently blast of strong heat would probably be able to fry a vampire, provided they hold still. I can't see the Volturi holding still. Wouldn't they have informants everywhere to tell them that a tactical strike is coming? They would have found out and abandoned ship long before anything hit them. *shrugs*

Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:23 pm
by Chernaudi
Pretty hard to outrun an anti-aircraft automatic cannon that fires 30mm shells at a velocity of 3500 ft. per second(at or over Mach 3)-vampires can only run about 35-45 mph, so if the cannon has a computing lead device, it'll be pretty hard to dodge those shells unless they're hiding behind a massive rock formation. And who knows if they can survive a direct hit from an anti-aircraft missile or air-to-air missle modified to follow ground targets by radar lead(vamps might show up on radar)-perhaps, if vamps can survive a themo-neclear weapon blast, they'll likely survive anything, but we don't know that-it goes back to Aro's comments from Breaking Dawn about humans having weapons that can allow them to challenge vampires if humans ever found out about them-the section of the discussion might fit better in the science section, but what I'm asking is do humans have the ability to possibly challenge vampires in a war, and if so, how could the Voltrui defend themselves?

Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:44 pm
by dandyvampgirl_13
For all we know, vampires could be like cockroaches!
Not that they could survive a nuclear blast. Pretty much nothing comes out of that.
And personally, I disagree with the "running about 45 mph" thing. If they're super strong and everything else, why can't they be as fast as Superman? However, I'm not going to argue about that because its my own thing. For your hypothetical case, we'll say they really do only run about 45 mph.
However, I wasn't really talking about them outrunning weapons. I meant that they would be able to make themselves scare long before humans even thought about attacking. So when the bombs do fly, they won't really hit anything- the vampires would be long gone. Perhaps the saying "The best offense is a good defense" would come into affect here. There's too many humans for the Volturi to possibly eradicate everyone who wants to kill them, so they would simply have to hide for a hundred years or so and wait for the humans to die.

Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:51 pm
by Chernaudi
The estimate was based on the estimate given for the movie about the vampires-according to Stephenie herself, vampires are superhuman, but aren't really like Superman of Spider-man or similar superheroes, so their speed of 35-45 mph would be valid.

And it's also not like the Japanese Manga/Anime series "Bio-Booster Armor Guyver", which has a cult following in American(though it certianly has nothing on Twilight in that area of fandom). In "Guyver" a high school student discoveres and alien device that turns him into an unwilling weapons incrusted armor-plated superhero who must battle evil mutated aliens controlled by an evil international corporation run by aliens.

Guyvers can run at very fast speeds(at least as fast as vampires or werewolves), and can take huge amounts of damage, but they're vulneralbe to poweriful acids(vampire venom is highly acidic, isn't it?). And I don't think that the aliens can challenge a Twilight vampire or shapeshifter in a one on one fight, inspite of how massive some of them are(some of the more poweriful mutant alien/human hybrids can be about the size of cars). Guyvers, however, can maybe challenge a vampire or shapeshifter of equal fighting ability, but both vamps and Guyvers would be hard to kill, as well as shapeshifters. However, this part of the discussion would be better suited for a Twilight characters vs whoever thread, if one exhists.

Now that I've run this thread of into another tangent, I do have to say that the Volturi will have a hard time against a massive armed attack from like NATO or a similar joint-effort of the US and European nations. Just as it's been said that you can't drop a 5000lb aircraft bomb on every terrorist or enemy soldier, I can't see 32 vampires fending off a group of humans that massively out number them, especially if firearms do have some effect on vampires.

And here's a question regarding the Volturi's questionable morality-are they immoral(know about moral standard but ignore them), or amoral(don't believe that conventional moral codes exhist, period)?

Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:13 pm
by dandyvampgirl_13
Um... that anime thing sounds an awful lot like Ben 10, but I know nothing about anime so I'm just going to ignore it.
Speaking of 'Twilight vs. (insert here)' threads, I want the Volturi vs Death Eaters thread back.
I wonder if Aliens and Predators can take on vampires... (For other kinds of aliens, Zaphod Beeblebrox would win simply by dancing/making them a bloody Pan-Galatic Gargle blaster/messing with their wardrobes. Cuz he's that awesome.)

I'm not sure firearms, like normal guns, would work on vampires. Something heat-intesive, like a bomb or a really really really big grenade (which would be a bomb... :roll: ) might, yes, but if the Volturi were just fighting a bunch of soldiers, I'm pretty sure the vampires would win. Also, one must account Alec's power. If the Volturi can get the humans before the humans can blow them up, the humans are screwed.

Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:09 pm
by Asheleyo
Chernaudi wrote:And here's a question regarding the Volturi's questionable morality-are they immoral(know about moral standard but ignore them), or amoral(don't believe that conventional moral codes exhist, period)?

I consider the Volturi amoral. They live outside of humanity, and certainly have no care for the goings-on of humans except if those humans seem like potentially powerful vampire converts. Why should their values be anywhere near the average human's? They feed off those average humans. They set themselves apart, and I think live as they wish within the realms of secrecy.

Re: The Volturi Coven and Guard

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:27 pm
by Chernaudi
But one would expect them to have some sense of morality, considering that they all have human origins-Bella has hung on to many of her more praiseworthy human traits since she became a vampire.

So I pose this question-are the Volturi amoral or immoral, depending on what side of that fence you're on, due to letting power go to their heads, or were they that way as humans?