Explorations (**BD2 Movie Spoilers!**)

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Re: Explorations

Postby Jazz Girl » Sun May 30, 2010 12:02 am

cullengirl wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:Why is it so wrong that, in the end, Bella & Edward and Jacob all get exactly what they want, need and wish for?


My answer to your question is: There is nothing as long as their some hardship that each character faces and overcomes. The characters need to sacrifice something in order to have a HEA. There needs to be a balance. IMO, Bella doesn't get to suffer at all:

1. She doesn't suffer the burning thirst of humans like the Cullens and the new born vampires.
2. She retains her human memories and gets to include Charlie in her 'secret life'.
3. She still has Jacob.
4. She gets to have a family.
5. She becomes beautiful, strong and develops a superpower, which ironically or not is able to deflect everything.

Through the first three books, Edward tries to explain every which way that he can that being a vampire is not all that it's hype up to be. Actions has consequences.True, you can argue the following:

1. She's been in near death situations 3 times in her life.
2. She will eventually lose her human memories.
3. Nessie will grow older at an exceptionally fast pace.


Cullengirl~ Welcome to the discussion. Always nice to have new air breathed into a conversation. I suppose my first question to you is, why? Why is it necessary that, for a person to find their HappilyEverAfter, they should suffer? I agree there has to be balance, but I fail to see how horrific suffering balances out happiness in the world. I'm okay with saying you have to earn it. But, I think saying she doesn't get it because she doesn't suffer is an entirely different matter.

But, I am also one who is of the opinion that Bella has suffered, and much more than the 3 places you point out. Bella suffered though the pain of an awkward, out of place childhood and adolescence. She suffered through being the child of a broken home, suffered through being the parent to her childlike mother, suffered through giving up her known and comfortable place so that her mother and stepfather could be happy, suffered through falling in love with a vampire, suffered through losing the love of her existence AND the family and life that she'd chosen for herself, suffered through the reconciliation of her relationship with Edward, suffered through the unraveling of her true feelings for Jacob all the while knowing that doing so was killing the person she loves most in the world, suffered through living on a razor's edge for 2 years in an almost constant tug of war between blissful happiness, deep despair and constant danger. And then, on top of it all, she suffered the burning away of her humanity, knowing that doing so not only hurt her, but again tortured the one person she loves most in the world.

Oh yes, she's suffered. And Edward suffered along with her. As I said, I would have liked to see a little more resolution to the whole relationship. I think they earned that right, to hash it out a little. But, I also think they earned their HEA for sure.
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Re: Explorations

Postby cullengirl » Sun May 30, 2010 5:27 pm

Thank you for the warm welcome. :)

Jazz Girl wrote:I suppose my first question to you is, why? Why is it necessary that, for a person to find their HappilyEverAfter, they should suffer? I agree there has to be balance, but I fail to see how horrific suffering balances out happiness in the world. I'm okay with saying you have to earn it. But, I think saying she doesn't get it because she doesn't suffer is an entirely different matter.

But, I am also one who is of the opinion that Bella has suffered, and much more than the 3 places you point out. Bella suffered though the pain of an awkward, out of place childhood and adolescence. She suffered through being the child of a broken home, suffered through being the parent to her childlike mother, suffered through giving up her known and comfortable place so that her mother and stepfather could be happy, suffered through falling in love with a vampire, suffered through losing the love of her existence AND the family and life that she'd chosen for herself, suffered through the reconciliation of her relationship with Edward, suffered through the unraveling of her true feelings for Jacob all the while knowing that doing so was killing the person she loves most in the world, suffered through living on a razor's edge for 2 years in an almost constant tug of war between blissful happiness, deep despair and constant danger. And then, on top of it all, she suffered the burning away of her humanity, knowing that doing so not only hurt her, but again tortured the one person she loves most in the world.


Perhaps 'suffer' isn't the right word that I should have used, but I do definitely think that a HEA should be earned. True, Bella has gone through those trials as you stated above, especially of those of troubling childhood, adolescence, and adulthood but that's nothing unique for anyone, especially a human. As for suffering while she's in love with a vampire, I would have to disagree. Bella has never questioned her relationship with Edward at all. Throughout each hurdle, she doesn't question whether continuing this relationship is even worth it, which something I thought she would do in NM while she is even her deep depression. I'm coming from the school of thought where Bella wears a rose tinted glasses until the end of Eclipse and where a vampire isn't what it's all hyped up to be and much less a happy ending where everything is instantly fixed.

Andy, thank you for your comments. Let me try to quickly reply to your comments:

Re: Bella's transformation-
How? It was Edward's venom that did that, just as it would have if Nessie had never happened. The pregnancy/birth impacted the timing and urgency, but without it, Bella would still have been changed.

I don't believe Bella would have been changed if it was not for the pregnancy. Under no circumstances was Bella going to be changed unless it was a life & death situation-which is alluded to all of the transformations done by Carlisle. What I meant to say that Nessie's birth almost killed the human Bella, which is why Edward is forced to inject her (another reason why I doubt Edward would be willing to change her) with venom to prevent her from being lost to him forever.

Re: Bella's humanity-
How? Do you think that Bella would have had less humanity than Carlisle or Edward after the change if she hadn't had Nessie? What evidence is there that Bella *wanted* to be a mother at all, prior to actually being pregnant?


To answer your first question, I think being a mother gave Bella a reason to retain her humanity. Carlisle and Edward had to fight amongst themselves to determine whether or not they are actually human when they were changed. Miraculously, Carlisle never gave in to his vampire instincts. Edward, on the other hand, did give in to his vampire instincts and hunted those who he felt were criminals for years he became vegetarian. As for Bella being a mother, she already played the mother role in taking care of her parents. Having Nessie, only solidified Bella's role.

I agree that Nessie is Deus Ex Machina as much as the next guy, but even I can't dump the entire plot on her tiny head :-)


LOL! I don't object to Nessie, really, and I know that's hard to believe after this post, but what I object to is how she easily answers the questions and conflicts in the series.

As for Bella's thirst- I find it hard to believe that the other new borns, especially the Cullens, were not told about the thirst. It's one thing to know about it and another to not even experience it. You can still experience the draw and pang of being a near a human, but to avoid it on your first day of feeding?

As for human memories, they remember vaguely and then it slowly fades, which is why Edward couldn't really recall his parents when Bella had asked about them.

As for the purpose of NM and EC: I will agree with you that NM was more for Edward than it was for Bella. I would like to believe that EC was a wake up call for Bella, however, when you look at BD as the final point, it was more like talking to a wall. Bella didn't need to worry about her potential troubles after all, now did she? *grins*
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Re: Explorations

Postby Jazz Girl » Sun May 30, 2010 5:44 pm

cullengirl wrote:Thank you for the warm welcome. :)

Jazz Girl wrote:I suppose my first question to you is, why? Why is it necessary that, for a person to find their HappilyEverAfter, they should suffer? I agree there has to be balance, but I fail to see how horrific suffering balances out happiness in the world. I'm okay with saying you have to earn it. But, I think saying she doesn't get it because she doesn't suffer is an entirely different matter.

But, I am also one who is of the opinion that Bella has suffered, and much more than the 3 places you point out. Bella suffered though the pain of an awkward, out of place childhood and adolescence. She suffered through being the child of a broken home, suffered through being the parent to her childlike mother, suffered through giving up her known and comfortable place so that her mother and stepfather could be happy, suffered through falling in love with a vampire, suffered through losing the love of her existence AND the family and life that she'd chosen for herself, suffered through the reconciliation of her relationship with Edward, suffered through the unraveling of her true feelings for Jacob all the while knowing that doing so was killing the person she loves most in the world, suffered through living on a razor's edge for 2 years in an almost constant tug of war between blissful happiness, deep despair and constant danger. And then, on top of it all, she suffered the burning away of her humanity, knowing that doing so not only hurt her, but again tortured the one person she loves most in the world.


Perhaps 'suffer' isn't the right word that I should have used, but I do definitely think that a HEA should be earned. True, Bella has gone through those trials as you stated above, especially of those of troubling childhood, adolescence, and adulthood but that's nothing unique for anyone, especially a human. As for suffering while she's in love with a vampire, I would have to disagree. Bella has never questioned her relationship with Edward at all. Throughout each hurdle, she doesn't question whether continuing this relationship is even worth it, which something I thought she would do in NM while she is even her deep depression. I'm coming from the school of thought where Bella wears a rose tinted glasses until the end of Eclipse and where a vampire isn't what it's all hyped up to be and much less a happy ending where everything is instantly fixed.


No, I don't think Bella ever questioned her relationship with Edward. But, neither was it all strawberries and dark chocolate. She went into her transformation with her eyes completely opened, in my opinion, of what life as a vampire(both Cullen and "traditional") was like. It was one of the keys to why she pushed all the limits in Compromise. Maybe it comes from my belief that, for Bella, becoming a vampire IS her happy ending.

cullengirl wrote:Re: Bella's transformation-
How? It was Edward's venom that did that, just as it would have if Nessie had never happened. The pregnancy/birth impacted the timing and urgency, but without it, Bella would still have been changed.

I don't believe Bella would have been changed if it was not for the pregnancy. Under no circumstances was Bella going to be changed unless it was a life & death situation-which is alluded to all of the transformations done by Carlisle. What I meant to say that Nessie's birth almost killed the human Bella, which is why Edward is forced to inject her (another reason why I doubt Edward would be willing to change her) with venom to prevent her from being lost to him forever.


I have to completely disagree here. At the end of Eclipse, Edward had completely accepted that Bella was going to be changed. I think a part of him quesitoned whether or not he was going to actually be able to go through with it. But, he knew. Carlisle had given his word to Bella. Bella chose her fate and the entire family, including Edward (maybe with the exception of Rosealie, but she wasn't going to interfere) accepted her choice of her fate and them as her family. As Andypalmer said, Ness might have changed the timing and circumstances. But, Bella was going to join them either way. Even SM has stated unequivocally that Bella's decision and the family's acceptance of it were solid.
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Re: Explorations

Postby andypalmer » Sun May 30, 2010 5:45 pm

cullengirl wrote:I don't believe Bella would have been changed if it was not for the pregnancy. Under no circumstances was Bella going to be changed unless it was a life & death situation-which is alluded to all of the transformations done by Carlisle. What I meant to say that Nessie's birth almost killed the human Bella, which is why Edward is forced to inject her (another reason why I doubt Edward would be willing to change her) with venom to prevent her from being lost to him forever.

Wow! Really? So the Cullens, including Edward, agreed to change Bella, including working out many of the details of how she would transition with her family but weren't going to carry through with it, even though it meant that the Volturi would hunt them down and destroy them?

cullengirl wrote:To answer your first question, I think being a mother gave Bella a reason to retain her humanity. Carlisle and Edward had to fight amongst themselves to determine whether or not they are actually human when they were changed. Miraculously, Carlisle never gave in to his vampire instincts. Edward, on the other hand, did give in to his vampire instincts and hunted those who he felt were criminals for years he became vegetarian. As for Bella being a mother, she already played the mother role in taking care of her parents. Having Nessie, only solidified Bella's role.
I agree that Nessie gave Bella an ADDITIONAL reason but I see Edward as the primary one. Just as Edward retains his humanity partially so as not to disappoint Carlisle, Bella would not want to disappoint Edward in that way and, long term, she could only be with Edward if she shared his dietary choices. As for the mother aspect, she WAS a mother to her mom, but that's a far stretch from actually WANTING to be a mother.

cullengirl wrote:As for Bella's thirst- I find it hard to believe that the other new borns, especially the Cullens, were not told about the thirst. It's one thing to know about it and another to not even experience it. You can still experience the draw and pang of being a near a human, but to avoid it on your first day of feeding?
None of the other Cullens had the opportunity. Edward was passed out, near death from Spanish Influenza, Esme was near death after jumping from a cliff, Rose was near death after her unfortunate event, and Emmett wasn't changed until after being carried 100 miles after being mauled by a bear. Bella was the only one who knew what she was getting herself into, who had the opportunity to not only be told what to expect but to prepare herself for it (for months...). On top of that, her first scent of human blood didn't go well and it was only the perceived threat of Edward's pursuit that allowed her the chance to "snap out of it."

cullengirl wrote:As for human memories, they remember vaguely and then it slowly fades, which is why Edward couldn't really recall his parents when Bella had asked about them.
Edward's parents died in 1917(?); I fully expect that if you were to ask Bella about her high school experiences in Forks 90 years from now that they'd be faded, too. :-)
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Re: Explorations

Postby cullengirl » Sun May 30, 2010 6:15 pm

andypalmer wrote:Wow! Really? So the Cullens, including Edward, agreed to change Bella, including working out many of the details of how she would transition with her family but weren't going to carry through with it, even though it meant that the Volturi would hunt them down and destroy them?


No, I don't think that Bella would have been changed. At that point, Edward hasn't come to terms with himself of being a vampire and much less would want Bella to do the same. There had to be something more immediate and dangerous than the Volutri for Bella's transformation. Sure, the Volturi are a threat and would have their eyes on Bella but when they would appear couldn't really be predicted. As Edward says in NM, the Volturi's concept of time is much different than ours. Besides, Alice could have predicted when the Volutri were close and Bella could have been changed then.

Just as Edward retains his humanity partially so as not to disappoint Carlisle, Bella would not want to disappoint Edward in that way and, long term, she could only be with Edward if she shared his dietary choices. As for the mother aspect, she WAS a mother to her mom, but that's a far stretch from actually WANTING to be a mother.


See, I see Edward retaining his humanity as self preservation and Bella only fueled that fire. True, Bella compromised getting married to Edward to make him happy. As for being a mother, maybe that's what the author wanted Bella to have. What's interesting to me is that Bella had more of a problem with being a wife than a mother.

cullengirl wrote: None of the other Cullens had the opportunity. Edward was passed out, near death from Spanish Influenza, Esme was near death after jumping from a cliff, Rose was near death after her unfortunate event, and Emmett wasn't changed until after being carried 100 miles after being mauled by a bear. Bella was the only one who knew what she was getting herself into, who had the opportunity to not only be told what to expect but to prepare herself for it (for months...). On top of that, her first scent of human blood didn't go well and it was only the perceived threat of Edward's pursuit that allowed her the chance to "snap out of it."
It's true about the other Cullens and which is why everyone besides Carlisle never tasted human blood. Rosalie has the second cleanest record. Even then it took a long time for Esme, Edward, and Emmett to wean themselves off of human blood and make their own choice that it's wrong. Even now they know that it's wrong to consume it yet they continue to fight it. Perhaps if we saw Bella interact with humans more than that one time we would really know her issue.

Edward's parents died in 1917(?); I fully expect that if you were to ask Bella about her high school experiences in Forks 90 years from now that they'd be faded, too. :-)
Yes, I bet he forgot after a decade or so. Who would want to remember their high school experiences? *grins widely*
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Re: Explorations

Postby Jazz Girl » Sun May 30, 2010 11:21 pm

cullengirl wrote:No, I don't think that Bella would have been changed. At that point, Edward hasn't come to terms with himself of being a vampire and much less would want Bella to do the same. There had to be something more immediate and dangerous than the Volutri for Bella's transformation. Sure, the Volturi are a threat and would have their eyes on Bella but when they would appear couldn't really be predicted. As Edward says in NM, the Volturi's concept of time is much different than ours. Besides, Alice could have predicted when the Volutri were close and Bella could have been changed then.


But, remember, when Bella tried to use the threat of the Volturi as justification for her change, Edward refused, telling her that he wanted her to walk into it completely willingly, not with a threat hanging over her head. He absolutely HATED the fact that Bella felt forced or pressured. He had agreed to turn her. But, it was going to be something she did freely. Yes, he wanted to delay her. Yes, he would gladly never bite her had she changed her mind. But, he had agreed to do it if she chose.

During Edward & Bella's final discussion in the meadow in Eclipse, Edward has completely accepted that Bella has been right all along, that it, in the end, should be her choice and that his ideas of what is right for her have all failed mostly because Bella's continued choice of him, her love for him is stronger than any right or wrong he perceives. He says, on pg 617 of the American hardback edition, "We're doing this your way. Because my way doesn't work. I call you stubborn, but look at what I've done. I've clung with such idiotic obstinancy to my idea of what's best for you, though it's only hurt you. Hurt you so deeply, time and time again. I don't trust myself anymore. You can have happiness your way. My way is always wrong. So...we're doing it your way , Bella. Tonight. Today. The sooner the better. I'll speak to Carlisle. I was thinking that maybe if we gave you enough morphine, it wouldn't be so bad." At that moment, he was completely ready to turn her. He doubted himself, sure. But, he never doubted her. And, at that moment, he stopped doubting that her choice was the right one for both of them. Yes, in the end, she won out in saying they would get married first. She delayed the timing. But, in the end, even if there had been no Renesme, Edward would have turned Bella, because it's what they both wanted.

Finally, I think he had come to terms with himself as a vampire. I think, when Bella accepted his proposal, when she chose him and he realized that she was not choosing the vampire, but the man who happened to be a vampire, he was able to accept that there was something within himself worth her love and her sacrifice. Did he celebrate it? No. Did he suffer moments of doubt? Absolutely. But, Bella's continued love and happiness with him made him realize that he couldn't be so much a monster.


cullengirl wrote: It's true about the other Cullens and which is why everyone besides Carlisle never tasted human blood. Rosalie has the second cleanest record. Even then it took a long time for Esme, Edward, and Emmett to wean themselves off of human blood and make their own choice that it's wrong. Even now they know that it's wrong to consume it yet they continue to fight it. Perhaps if we saw Bella interact with humans more than that one time we would really know her issue.


I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Rosalie is the only Cullen never to taste human blood (Carlisle has only tasted it in the transformation). They never stop suffering their thirst. They just learn to control their reaction to it. All of them, save Carlisle, slipped, as they call it, at one time or another. They abstain from human blood because they know it's wrong to kill. But, their continued suffering is not a mark of less humanity. I have always seen it as a mark of a greater humanity. The thirst is a biological reaction that they have no more control over than you or I have over our stomach growling when we are hungry. It's an unconscious biological process. They will always feel the fire of the thirst, just as you or I will always feel hunger, have our mouth water at our favorite food. Only, for them, it is 1,000,000 times worse. It is like swallowing a lit torch. And yet, they continually expose themselves to the source of the torment but do nothing to extinguish the flames because they choose to retain their humanity.

Where Bella is concerned, again, I think a great part of her resistance to human blood was her preparation. She spent 2 years around vampires who continually demonstrated that, while the thirst is painful and automatic, one's reaction to it can be controlled. Think particularly about her time with Edward. Her blood called to him more strongly that pure heroine to an addict. And yet, he literally stood in the flames to be next to her. Combine that foreknowledge with her compassion for all those around her and I don't find her abilty to resist at all surprising. And, as Andypalmer pointed out, we know that she experienced the thirst first hand, that it burned her. It was her reaction to the thirst that she was able to control, not her experience of it. That she was able to control it around Renesme so immediately is easily explainable. First, Renesme is Bella's child. Her natural mothering instincts, even possibly enhanced by the transformation so immediately after her birth, would be to protect that baby at any cost. Also, Renesme is also part Edward. Bella's protective instincts towards him are just as strong. Finally, Renesme is part vampire. The vampiric nature of her scent seemed to override much of her human scent. Remember, even Jasper (my apologies Jazz for picking on you) could be around her with no problem. Her blood did not call to any of them.
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Re: Explorations

Postby December » Mon May 31, 2010 6:32 pm

I have to admit I'm intrigued, Cullengirl, that you think Edward wouldn't in the end have been prepared to change Bella, even after the journey they've travelled together in Eclipse. If the events of NM and EC never happened, yes it's pretty inconceivable that he would have consented to her giving up her humanity. But I think I'm with JG and and Andy in feeling that by the end of EC, Edward is not only resigned but actually reconciled to her becoming a vampire. He's finally realized, and accepted, that nothing human life can offer her can outshine the joy of being with him. He's not only ready to allow Bella to choose, he's recognized that her choice she's making the right one. That's how the story reads to me, anyhow. So I'm curious to know why you read it differently. Unless...you're taking the stringent view that the whole of BD requires us to suppose NM and EC never happened -- to take the book strictly as a sequel to TW (with Jake thrown in). In which case, I'm with you 100%! (*grin*)

BTW, still nursing a long reply to JG's earlier post on HEAs. Going to try and finish and post tomorrow!
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Re: Explorations

Postby cullengirl » Mon May 31, 2010 8:00 pm

But, he had agreed to do it if she chose.


Ah, but in the end she didn't have a choice literally when the injection was given. She, like the other Cullens, was on her death bed. Edward made that choice for her. The only difference between Bella's transformation and the other Cullens is that Bella knew she wanted it and was given a choice, which they never had.

December wrote: Unless...you're taking the stringent view that the whole of BD requires us to suppose NM and EC never happened -- to take the book strictly as a sequel to TW (with Jake thrown in). In which case, I'm with you 100%! (*grin*)


I've always known that Bella was going to change in Breaking Dawn. I didn't have a single doubt about that. I did find it fascinating that Edward resorted to an injection filled with venom in order to change Bella, which is not how she wanted it to happen and of course, I'm not including Nessie's birth. And yes, December, my thoughts stated in my previous posts rely on the thought that BD requires us to suppose that NM and EC never happened and is strictly a conclusion to TW.
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Re: Explorations

Postby Jazz Girl » Mon May 31, 2010 9:24 pm

cullengirl wrote:Ah, but in the end she didn't have a choice literally when the injection was given. She, like the other Cullens, was on her death bed. Edward made that choice for her. The only difference between Bella's transformation and the other Cullens is that Bella knew she wanted it and was given a choice, which they never had.


Cullengirl~ You're right. At the very end, Bella's transformation is an "emergency vampirization", as Jacob calls it. But, even that was her choice. Think of how she explains things to Jacob when he shows up. She knows there's now way she will survive Ness' birth human. But, she never intended to stay human anyways. She knew she would be turned regardless. Again, Renesmee's birth changed the circumstances and the timing. But, even without Renesmee, Edward would have turned her. He'd accepted it, accepted her right to make that choice, accepted her sacrifice, accepted her love and he would have done as she asked him.

Something else that I noticed. Edward did not resort to an injection. He used the injection to augment and supplement the venom from his bite. The first bite that got the venom into her system would have been when he used his teeth to cut into her womb. He used a syringe to inject venom directly into her heart in an attempt to spread the venom faster. He followed with bites to her throat, wrists, elbows and ankles.

I am interested, though, as to how you can disregard New Moon & Eclipse. I understand that, essentially, Breaking Dawn (with a few changes) was the planned original ending until Little Brown asked SM to expand The Saga. I'm just not sure I could ever bring myself to ignore what the author gives us as the full story.
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Re: Explorations

Postby Openhome » Mon May 31, 2010 11:01 pm

Wow. I go away for three days, and just look at what you guys have done to this thread!! :lol:

Wonderful discussion here! First off, let me rephrase what I hear Cullengirl saying, because it is also what bothers me about BD, and I truly do love the book. Not even perfect little Renesme bothers me except for the name. What bothers me, and Cullengirl and perhaps December a bit, is the extent of the HEA. The book went from and epic tale of forbidden, redemptive love to a fairy tale in the last chapter. That is what bothers me most. I LOVE that HEA, but it doesn't fit what the books seemed to set themselves up to be.

From a few previous discussions that included Knives, we all had issues with three things (this is after re-reading those gargantuan posts): first, that there seemed to be no downside to vampirism; second, that Bella and everybody else got everything they wanted; and third, (I'm paraphrasing) there seemed to be no reason for New Moon and Eclipse with Bella's easy passage into vampirism. It was as if all the pain and emotional twists and turns were for naught because becoming a vampire was just too easy. SM was creating a marvelous saga about love and sacrifice, and in the end there was a total lack of sacrifice on anyone's part but the Denali Coven. Renesme's birth fulfilled everyone's wishes. Even Esme and Carlisle get both a daughter and a grand baby. For those of us who were waiting on a great work of epic mythos, the thing kinda went thud.

The saving grace of the book wasn't in the end, though, it was in the journey for me. Maybe this is why I don't mind the thud. Bella began the saga as a misfit teen with no life and a wonderfully giving heart. Edward and his family began the saga as tortured souls who see themselves as most likely damned and a curse on the earth. Through all the twists and turns, we see Bella grow up a bit. She keeps those rose tinted glasses on until Eclipse, and then, finally realizing at least a little of what she must give up and endure, she still holds to her love and to her faith that they are supposed to be together. By BD, the family sees themselves as worthy of Bella's love, as perhaps not being the curse they assumed they were. All of this happened because a young woman who didn't see herself or the world very clearly took the time and faced the danger of loving the unlovable. And that love was so clearly and intensely written that all of us gladly went along for the journey.

Cullengirl, Andy will disagree with me, but I think that SM didn't have the sacrifice at the end, but at the beginning. The very first words of the story tell of a sacrificial death, Bella's words from the ballet studio, and I believe that rather than demanding a suffering sacrifice from Bella, SM felt that all Bella needed to earn that absolute HEA was to be willing, over and over again, to suffer and die for the ones she loved. All of them.

To bring up an old argument, Renesme was not only Bella's and Edward's gift for living and loving, but she was the gift that Carlisle deserved and through him, the family, for denying themselves and resisting temptation. Bella and Edward got more than they ever even knew they could wish for, and I don't mind because of what they were willing to do for it. I just wish the last line wasn't in the book. In that moment, the story that made me remember the wonder of my teen years switched from epic novel to Disney fairy tale. I still love all four books!! I just miss a realistic HEA like we were given in the Host.

LEX ODYSSEY CLUE #7
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