Jacob Black #2

[Esme echo]

. . . provided Nomads didn't make a habit of wandering through, and Bella's visits to her dad didn't keep the transformations going.

[holdingoutforjacob]

Hmm. I guess that depends on how long vampires have to be there to trigger the gene? It seems like they almost have to make it a permanent residence for it to trigger, or at least that would make sense.

I don't think Bella will visit her father in Forks very much, I think he'll visit her. It would be hard to pull off, since the people who knew her would automatically notice how different she looks, and eventually they'll have to stop altogether cuz she won't age.

[Esme echo]

I think you're right on both counts.

How much of Jacob's pre-wolf personality do you see him reclaiming after impressing? I hope a lot, because pre-wolf Jacob was pretty darn charming! The angry and desperate Jacob--not so much. Hilarious at times, but not charming.

[holdingoutforjacob]

See, I think people often say "pre-wolf" and "post-wolf". It was not, in fact, shifting that made him angry and bitter, but heartbreak. Sure, there was a period of time during New Moon where he was bitter and angry - during the time when he couldn't figure out a way to break Sam's rules. But after he got around that, he was fine - he had more responsibility, was a little more grown up, but he wasn't bitter and angry, or at least nowhere near the degree he was in Eclipse.

I don't know that he regained much of himself after imprinting, just because we didn't really see him. What we did see was almost a shell of who he was - you can't regain innocence.

[Pendragon]

See, I think people often say "pre-wolf" and "post-wolf". It was not, in fact, shifting that made him angry and bitter, but heartbreak. Sure, there was a period of time during New Moon where he was bitter and angry - during the time when he couldn't figure out a way to break Sam's rules. But after he got around that, he was fine - he had more responsibility, was a little more grown up, but he wasn't bitter and angry, or at least nowhere near the degree he was in Eclipse.

I don't know that he regained much of himself after imprinting, just because we didn't really see him. What we did see was almost a shell of who he was - you can't regain innocence.

I can't help but feel that he's a mere shell of the Jacob we all know and love. Imprinted Jake feels kind of....fake.

[Esme echo]

I suppose it was Jacob's innocence I was mourning in my last post. I have observed that people with a native happy personality will revert to that attitude after troubled times given half a chance. I would expect Jacob to reclaim his cheerful, loving and considerate temperment--in spite of his new maturity, difficult experiences, and increased responsibilities.

[Pendragon]

I suppose it was Jacob's innocence I was mourning in my last post. I have observed that people with a native happy personality will revert to that attitude after troubled times given half a chance. I would expect Jacob to reclaim his cheerful, loving and considerate temperment--in spite of his new maturity, difficult experiences, and increased responsibilities.

Exactly! That's what I would have liked happen. To have Jacob learn and grow from his experiences and become the same person we all know and love with some new experiences, and thus have his happy ending. Not some cheap cop out like imprinting on bella's daughter!!!

[Esme echo]

I am mystified as to why the existence of Renesmee is so abhored by so many. Personally, I was delighted with that development. I'm guessing my general happiness with Renesmee is that I am a mother and childlessness was the one thing I really regretted about Bella's determination to become a vampire. (I like happy endings, too.)

Here are some questions for those who feel the story went south when Bella got pregnant: Do you think Jacob would have gotten over Bella if he hadn't imprinted? If so, how long do you think it would have taken? What would Jacob have done if Bella and Edward had come home--Bella perfectly fine and happy--before leaving for Dartmouth? If he took off into the frozen wastelands because he couldn't stand to be around his imprinted brothers, what chance would he have had to get over the love he was running away from?

[Pendragon]

I am mystified as to why the existence of Renesmee is so abhored by so many. Personally, I was delighted with that development. I'm guessing my general happiness with Renesmee is that I am a mother and childlessness was the one thing I really regretted about Bella's determination to become a vampire. (I like happy endings, too.)

Here are some questions for those who feel the story went south when Bella got pregnant: Do you think Jacob would have gotten over Bella if he hadn't imprinted? If so, how long do you think it would have taken? What would Jacob have done if Bella and Edward had come home--Bella perfectly fine and happy--before leaving for Dartmouth? If he took off into the frozen wastelands because he couldn't stand to be around his imprinted brothers, what chance would he have had to get over the love he was running away from?

The reason Renesmee's existences is dislike by many is because she's mostly seen as a cheap plot device to wrap up all the loose ends. Bella ends up having a baby with the man she loved. Jacob is not only given a new love and thus a happy ending, but he and Bella get to be buddies again, never having to address all the heartache she caused him ever again. The tension caused by her existence seemed to have potential for an interesting conflict between the pack and cullens but fell flat of Jacob imprinting on her. A lot of people felt that story revolved too much around her. I personally would have preferred something more interesting for the story. In regards to Jacob, a lot of people like myself felt he would have been better off if he healed on his own. That would constitute for true character development. Smeyer could have found another way for Leah and Jacob to connect. As suzzeeQ said in another thread, Jacob from Forever Dawn was a side character and thus had no character development so it didn't matter what kind of effect imprinting on Nessie would have for his character. The Jacob in the rest of the series is different so many see his imprinting on Nessie a halt on his character development.

[Esme echo]

The reason Renesmee's existences is dislike by many is because she's mostly seen as a cheap plot device to wrap up all the loose ends. Bella ends up having a baby with the man she loved. Jacob is not only given a new love and thus a happy ending, but he and Bella get to be buddies again, never having to address all the heartache she caused him ever again. The tension caused by her existence seemed to have potential for an interesting conflict between the pack and cullens but fell flat of Jacob imprinting on her. A lot of people felt that story revolved too much around her. I personally would have preferred something more interesting for the story. In regards to Jacob, a lot of people like myself felt he would have been better off if he healed on his own. That would constitute for true character development. Smeyer could have found another way for Leah and Jacob to connect. As suzzeeQ said in another thread, Jacob from Forever Dawn was a side character and thus had no character development so it didn't matter what kind of effect imprinting on Nessie would have for his character. The Jacob in the rest of the series is different so many see his imprinting on Nessie a halt on his character development.

How can Renesmee be a cheap plot device when the whole story was written around her eventual arrival? It's not like SM wrote herself into a hole then threw Renesmee in there to rescue the book. I feel compelled to point out that the story isn't about Jacob, it's about Bella, Edward, and Renesmee. Jacob is one of several fascinating characters who have profound effects on what happens; nevertheless, the story isn't about him.

Those of you who think Jacob would have been better off if he had not imprinted are actually agreeing with Jacob; he expressed more than once that he thought imprinting was stupid, took away the imprintee's freedom, and he wanted no part of it. In describing those who had imprinted Jacob said, "the peace and certainty they always radiated was downright puke-inducing," but as he watched Quil with Claire he also said, "I couldn’t even make fun of him for it—I envied him too much." And that was before he knew Bella was back. SM hinted several times that it would take imprinting to relieve Jacob of his feelings for Bella.

It seems to me that a lot of people are just peeved because SM deliberately wrote a happily-ever-after story. I thought she was pretty up-front about her intention to do so, and I--for one--am happy with how she did it.