Alcyone....I'm not saying this in an offensive way...but I see now, you're a cynic. <~Do you agree?
I'm very curious...what do you think is antifeminist about the series. I've never understood the arguement...sure Bella decides to go some very traditional routes, but that's the point...she decided. Theres nothing more pro-female than that.
I married young, stopped working to have three kids and be a stay-at-home mom. I don't think that makes me any less pro-feminism than a woman who chooses to never get married and pursue a career. The point of it all is that we have a choice to do one or the other or everything all together.
Also...would you have liked the series more if Edward had given in to his cravings...would you have liked him more? Would you liked it more if he had never come back in NM or if he had never left at all? It's interesting to see it from your POV.
The Third Table
Moderators: bac, cullengirl, una, Nena
Forum rules
Click for Forum Rules
Click for Forum Rules
-
- Has More Hidden Talents Than Aro
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:25 pm
- Location: Playing foosball with Aro
Re: The Third Table
Hells yeah! *kicks Romantic!Alcy into closet*MRK wrote:Alcyone....I'm not saying this in an offensive way...but I see now, you're a cynic. <~Do you agree?
1. Female wolves are menopausal; male wolves can continue to procreate.I'm very curious...what do you think is antifeminist about the series.
2. Female half-vampires cannot turn others; the males can.
3. Women are used as incubators by Nahuel's father then allowed to die.
4. The female members of the Volturi coven apparently have no power. And might as well not have been mentioned for all they mattered.
5. Aro's female personal bodyguard is a whimpering coward. The males guarding the Volturi wives were huge, brawny and downright intimidating. (If I were a despot, my personal bodyguards would take classes from Israel's Secret Service. No fear. No hesitancy in stepping into the line of a bullet or flamethrower. Not needing bloody reassurance from the person they're supposed to protect.)
6. The kickass females (like Kate. Kate ftw!) are just a step above extras as in seen once, never heard from again. Or they're just mentioned like Maria.
7. Gianna wants to be a vampire. But not the right kind. So she gets eaten.
8. Bedward. 'Nough said. Besides, you really don't want to get me started on this topic. Especially on the matter of choice.
9. Charlie learns, somewhat, what happened to his daughter. Renee? Who's Renee? Was she a store clerk or something?
10. Esme was abused. Rosalie was raped. Alice was locked in a madhouse. How come all the women seem to have been tortured by other humans--men--before their turning?
And there are several others, but ten seemed a good, round number.
You mean if he stopped being so very repressed, controlling and uptight? Maybe.Also...would you have liked the series more if Edward had given in to his cravings...would you have liked him more?
How about he actually takes the time to talk to Bella? You have no idea how long I waited for an actual conversation between those two, without evasions, without little white lies, without huge other lies... This obsession with not hurting the other to the point that they could not discuss most things calmly and work out problems that way made me want to strangle them both.Would you liked it more if he had never come back in NM or if he had never left at all?
-
- Muse of Philosophical Discussion
- Posts: 2721
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:09 am
- Location: Putting the "Longa" into Ars Longa....
Re: The Third Table
Aghhh! No, no (*she whimpered feebly*) not feminism. Not tonight.... I got up way too early this morning and my brain is like porridge and it's such a mired question. Can't we come back to this one when we're all feeling more sparkly? Like tomorrow?
(Or never?...How does never sound to you? *grin*)
(Or never?...How does never sound to you? *grin*)
“When did you ever promise to kill yourself falling out of Charlie’s tree?”
-
- Has More Hidden Talents Than Aro
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:25 pm
- Location: Playing foosball with Aro
Re: The Third Table
You've been brainwashing ouisa. I really don't like you right now. So if you don't like the question, I'm all for it.December wrote:(Or never?...How does never sound to you? *grin*)
Yes, I'm a vengeful, immature girl. Deal with it.
Re: The Third Table
lol...your poor romantic side...Alcyone wrote:
Hells yeah! *kicks Romantic!Alcy into closet*
Nature...women get menopausal...men continue to procreate...I think its just for the convienience...I mean it probably wouldn't be a good thing for Leah to be phasing while pregnant. I was under the impression that she would regain her ability to have children once she stopped phasing.I'm very curious...what do you think is antifeminist about the series
1. Female wolves are menopausal; male wolves can continue to procreate..
Honestly, I think that was just so Nessie wouldn't have to get whacked by the Volturi...but interesting...2. Female half-vampires cannot turn others; the males can.
3. Women are used as incubators by Nahuel's father then allowed to die.
I don't see Aro and the rest having wives that can kick their a$$es...they wouldn't put Vamps with great power in a position to use that power to overthrow them...but again I can see where you're coming from...4. The female members of the Volturi coven apparently have no power. And might as well not have been mentioned for all they mattered.
As we learned when Bella turned out to be the hero...it's not the size that matters, but the ability. Aro's guard may have been a coward...but he was better protected by her powers, now if you had said that he only protected the wives with a couple of Emmets...with no real power only strength...then I would see your point.5. Aro's female personal bodyguard is a whimpering coward. The males guarding the Volturi wives were huge, brawny and downright intimidating. (If I were a despot, my personal bodyguards would take classes from Israel's Secret Service. No fear. No hesitancy in stepping into the line of a bullet or flamethrower. Not needing bloody reassurance from the person they're supposed to protect.)
Ok I didn't see this at all...I honestly saw Jane as higher up and the favorite of Aro6. Jane's twin brother is higher up the food chain than she is. And she's overcome by childish fits of rage. Wonderful choice to showcase girl power.
Seriously...lol...you're stretching...how can they help it if she was yummy...lol...c'mon they just wanted a snack...does that make them anti=feminist?7. Gianna wants to be a vampire. But not the right kind. So she gets eaten.
Again, I see your point, but I think the point was that she had grown close to Charlie...and they wanted to protect Renee, besides she had more keen awarness it'd be harder to hide things from her. Isn't that more of an insult to Charlie...9. Charlie learns, somewhat, what happened to his daughter. Renee? Who's Renee? Was she a store clerk or something?
Having had a couple of these scenarios happen to me, myself...I seriously think you're missing the point. Seems more anti-man to me personally...but I think Carlise would have turned them only if their lives had been taken from them in the worst possible ways...and trust me, those are a couple of the worst ways. It's like he was trying to right a wrong.10. Esme was abused. Rosalie was raped. Alice was locked in a madhouse. How come all the women seem to have been tortured by other humans--men--before their turning?
Those are a good 10And there are several others, but ten seemed a good, round number.
I just think you're trying to hard to find the negative...but at the same time I guess I could be a little naive
Would you liked it more if he had never come back in NM or if he had never left at all?
but what fun would that be lol...How about he actually takes the time to talk to Bella? You have no idea how long I waited for an actual conversation between those two, without evasions, without little white lies, without huge other lies... This obsession with not hurting the other to the point that they could not discuss most things calmly and work out problems that way made me want to strangle them both.
btw...thanks for takin the time to explain your side...
-
- Muse of Philosophical Discussion
- Posts: 2721
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:09 am
- Location: Putting the "Longa" into Ars Longa....
Re: The Third Table
Well, talk to Ouisa and her Flipflop of Doom. This is her thread. If she wants to spend her time stamping out brushfires, it's up to her.Alcyone wrote:So if you don't like the question, I'm all for it.
Yes, I'm a vengeful, immature girl. Deal with it.
More seriously, kudos to all for managing to talk to each other about these tricky topics in a good-natured way.... (Well, as good-natured as is possible with a reputation to keep up! *grin*)
“When did you ever promise to kill yourself falling out of Charlie’s tree?”
-
- Officially Bitten!
- Posts: 1533
- Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:48 pm
- Location: I'm not gonna tell.... (Rhage! Shhh!)
Re: The Third Table
Didn't SM say that Marco's was so in love with Aro's sister and that Aro off'd her so he could hang onto Marcus' powers and influence him? Clearly that whole love thing is pretty powerful with vamps. Marco's love for Didyme was more significant and powerful than the Volturi agenda.Alcyone wrote:4. The female members of the Volturi coven apparently have no power. And might as well not have been mentioned for all they mattered.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/p ... directlink
40-something and feeling a little like Mrs. Cope.
Banner by Fry
40-something and feeling a little like Mrs. Cope.
Banner by Fry
-
- Cataloging the Cullen Library
- Posts: 1310
- Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Having a book discussion with V.
- Contact:
Re: The Third Table
THANK YOU! I've been waiting for this during the entire series. It seemed like it was going into that direction in Eclipse, but alas it was futile. Apparently having Nessie is just so much more important and a compromise between Bella and Edward.Alcyone wrote:How about he actually takes the time to talk to Bella? You have no idea how long I waited for an actual conversation between those two, without evasions, without little white lies, without huge other lies... This obsession with not hurting the other to the point that they could not discuss most things calmly and work out problems that way made me want to strangle them both.
I know this isn't the Gutter, but ROFL. Thank God, I didn't have my cup of hot tea this morning or else I'll be covered up wth burns.MRK wrote:...it's not the size that matters, but the ability.
“Darkness will never take me…because I have you. Light of my life, Marissa. That’s what you are.”-LR
Banner by the awesome, beautiful and incredible Nena!
Banner by the awesome, beautiful and incredible Nena!
-
- Has More Hidden Talents Than Aro
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:25 pm
- Location: Playing foosball with Aro
Re: The Third Table
The living ones appear to be more decorational than anything. The don't even matter enough to be named in the actual text. An Index was required for that.nissanmama wrote:Didn't SM say that Marco's was so in love with Aro's sister and that Aro off'd her so he could hang onto Marcus' powers and influence him? Clearly that whole love thing is pretty powerful with vamps. Marco's love for Didyme was more significant and powerful than the Volturi agenda.
And it's Marcus, not Marco. Marco Polo is a different Italian.
Alec is leader of the Guard.MRK wrote:Ok I didn't see this at all...I honestly saw Jane as higher up and the favorite of Aro
And the reason why I mention Jane is that Stephenie mentioned her as showcasing girl power. I fail to see the girl power, just because she can torture others mentally. I would think true "girl power" would be based on the woman herself rather than an extraneous ability.
Not at all. Gianna was Bella's counterpart except Gianna wanted to be the wrong type of vampire. This might also be indicative of yet another distasteful theme in the series, but eh.Seriously...lol...you're stretching...how can they help it if she was yummy...lol...c'mon they just wanted a snack...does that make them anti=feminist?
So the mother means nothing? Just the one who happens to be close by?Again, I see your point, but I think the point was that she had grown close to Charlie...
Why try to hide things, then? If she's so keenly aware, she would realize Charlie would be hiding something. Isn't that all the more reason to clue her in? For decency, at least?and they wanted to protect Renee, besides she had more keen awarness it'd be harder to hide things from her.
Right. Because the man is the one being hurt.Seems more anti-man to me personally...
So we have a man playing God with two women's lives. While Esme may be thankful for it, we know for a fact that Rosalie would sacrifice everything--even Emmett--to have a human life again. What gives him the right?It's like he was trying to right a wrong.
As for Alice, her family sent her to the asylum. It wasn't so much men as a woman too. And women tend to be the ones to adhere to misogynistic tendencies the most.
Actually, I pulled those off the top of my head. If I thought harder, I could come up with quite a few more.I just think you're trying to hard to find the negative...
*shudder* Nessie. Miracle baby magically resolves all of parents' problems. Right. And I actually love Edward. In fact, I dream of his marble, chiseled chest and cry myself to sleep at night because I don't have him.cullengirl wrote:Apparently having Nessie is just so much more important and a compromise between Bella and Edward.
Re: The Third Table
well, you don't fail to disappoint Alycone...lol...
Maybe I've hid so much to protect those I love to be able to take up issue with the whole Charlie/Renee thing...I can identify where Bella is coming from. If it werent for Jacob, Charlie may have never known. Instead of looking at is as, 'well Charlie got to know cause he is male...while Renee is just some simpering female'...I looked at it as, 'at least Bella didn't have to lose both her parents as she thought she would.'
*sigh* I think we are the two extremes lol...you're hard-core and I'm a softy. I refuse to believe SM had some crazed vision of demeaning women, and making the masses of young girls fall into subserviency with her books.
As the famous words go, "we are at an impasse." <~~ Thanks Edward lol...
So anyway...what else can we discuss?? This is fun, though I'm not very good at it...I can't debate to save my life...lol
Just take it easy on me Aly...trust me I'm not attacking you personally...just picking your brain...it's fun to open up the dark side every once in awhile!
Maybe I've hid so much to protect those I love to be able to take up issue with the whole Charlie/Renee thing...I can identify where Bella is coming from. If it werent for Jacob, Charlie may have never known. Instead of looking at is as, 'well Charlie got to know cause he is male...while Renee is just some simpering female'...I looked at it as, 'at least Bella didn't have to lose both her parents as she thought she would.'
*sigh* I think we are the two extremes lol...you're hard-core and I'm a softy. I refuse to believe SM had some crazed vision of demeaning women, and making the masses of young girls fall into subserviency with her books.
As the famous words go, "we are at an impasse." <~~ Thanks Edward lol...
So anyway...what else can we discuss?? This is fun, though I'm not very good at it...I can't debate to save my life...lol
Just take it easy on me Aly...trust me I'm not attacking you personally...just picking your brain...it's fun to open up the dark side every once in awhile!