Jazz Girl wrote:Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to get another question out there for consideration.
Question Time! Question Time!
On the Bella thread, there's been a bit of a discussion as to just when it was that Bella really realized she loved Jacob. So, my question to you all is a complimentary one: When do you think Edward realized that Bella loved Jacob? What were his first thoughts about it? I have my own thoughts, but I will save them til later.
I have 2 avenues of thought here:
1) the "friendship/platonic" love between Jacob and Bella- at the end of NM (I think it's the Epilogue) when Jacob leaves the motorcycle at Bella's and is waiting for them in the woods. Bella's reaction to want to comfort Jacob because he's "hurting" I think gives Edward his first glimse at to the depth of the feelings and just how important Jacob was to Bella's survival...
2)Romanctic love: for me this one was a little harder to answer. Bella didn't even realize her feelings until right before the battle in Eclipse, although Jacob was sure of it, and Edward could read his thoughts. Sooo...I think it was when Bella was back in the tent, after the Jacob kiss, and was telling Edward what happened. I think Edward was hurt, but knew that after all they (E & B) had been through, she loved him more...
Proud resident of Rob's Halfway House !! Banner by TammyAZ
I agree completely twilightsagaaddict. In the Fire and Ice chapter where Edward and Jacob are talking, Edward even admits that he is not sure Jacob is right about Bella loving him too. But when Edward talks to Bella after her kiss with Jacob, he says you love him and she just replies I love you more. I think this shows that he really realizes then that she loves them both.
"Fall down again, Bella?"
"No, Emmett. I punched a werewolf in the face."
Jazz Girl wrote:Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to get another question out there for consideration.
Question Time! Question Time!
On the Bella thread, there's been a bit of a discussion as to just when it was that Bella really realized she loved Jacob. So, my question to you all is a complimentary one: When do you think Edward realized that Bella loved Jacob? What were his first thoughts about it? I have my own thoughts, but I will save them til later.
Question time is my favorite time!
I love how twilightsagaaddict broke it out into two different types of love.
I agree w/ the idea that Edward realized Bella love-loved Jacob in the tent after the kiss. I think part of the reason I can see this is because I don't think Edward knows Bella better than she knows herself (and therefore wouldn't know something she herself didn't yet know. If that makes sense.)
I think the telling-Charlie-about-the-motorcycle scene was where Edward got the first taste of the depth of Bella's friend-love for Jake, but I'm not sure E really knew how much she cares about Jacob until she sneaks away from Alice to go see him -- showing just how much she is willing to risk (at least is Edward's eyes) to spend time w/ Jacob. He finally gives up on the idea of preventing her from seeing Jake because he can see how much it means to her.
Great ideas, all. I thought I would go ahead and post my thoughts on my question for discussion. I believe Edward recognized Bella's feelings for Jacob for what they were much earlier than he was actually willing to admit to himself. But, I think the actual realization happened much earlier than most. I think Edward recognized Bella's love for Jacob in the woods at the end of New Moon, after Jacob brings the motorcycle to Charlie. I think in the parting exchange, when Bella is so desperate to see him smile, see him happy, Edward sees what he is responsible for.
"Like we were connected, the echo of his pain twisted inside me. His pain, my pain.
"Jake..." I took a step toward him. I wanted to wrap my arms around his waist and erase the expression of misery on his face.
Edward pulled me back again, his arms restraining instead of defending.
"It's okay, I promised him, looking up to read his face with trust in my eyes. He would understand.
His eyes were unreadable, his face expressionless. Cold. "No, it's not."
"Let her go, " Jacob snarled, furious again. "She wants to!" He took two long strides forward. A glint of anticipation flashed in his eyes. His chest seemed to swell as it shuddered.
Edward pushed me behind himself, wheeling to face Jacob." New Moon p 561
In these moments, Edward recognizes what Bella realized just a few days before. In seing hr pain at his pain, he realized yes, she loves Edward more than her own life. But, in his absence, she grew to love Jacob and she would never be able to hurt him the way she would have to to choose between them. I think this is the one time, until Fire & Ice that we see Edward react to Jacob as a rival, as opposed to a threat to Bella. In these moments, he hasn't quite mastered his hurt over pushing Bella that far away from him. Yes, it is what he originally wanted to happen, for her to move on with someone else. But, I don't think he realized how much it would hurt him to be face to face with it like this. And, he can't quite master his emotions fast enough not to react, however briefly, to the thought of Jacob coming between he and Bella.
Akire, you absolutely bring up a good point about Edward not knowing Bella better than she knows herself. But, I also believe that Bella recognized that she loved Jacob much earlier than most of us think. I believe it happened in New Moon, just before Alice returns and they run to Italy and Edward. On p 371, Bella is musing about what it would have been like for Juliet if Romeo had just left rather than died. Could she have moved on with Paris? Could she love Paris? "Not like Romeo. Nothing like that, of course. But enough that she wanted him to be happy, too?" This is where she first considers the idea of loving Jacob. I think she first recognizes that she does love him, nothing like Edward, of course. But, enough to want him to be happy. By no means do I think she recognizes the depth of the feelings she has for him. But, the awareness is definitely there. Of course, I also think this makes the whole "informed decision" argument explaining why Jacob behaved the way he behaved null and void. But, that is a story for a different post.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS
Somebody mentioned (sorry I forgot who it was) that after the hunting trip when Bella sneaked out to see jacob, Edward was more sexual then usual because he realized Bella loves Jacob and he began to fight.
So could it be that at that point Edward eased up so much more in allowing Bella to see Jacob so that she has a chance to figure out who she wants to be with?
cullens_love wrote:Somebody mentioned (sorry I forgot who it was) that after the hunting trip when Bella sneaked out to see jacob, Edward was more sexual then usual because he realized Bella loves Jacob and he began to fight.
So could it be that at that point Edward eased up so much more in allowing Bella to see Jacob so that she has a chance to figure out who she wants to be with?
First, let me say that I don't agree that he became more physical with her after that. In that reunion, yes, he allowed things to go a lot further than they had before. He himself was much more open AT FIRST. But, just like every other time things moved beyond where he felt his control could hold, he pulled back. And, it stayed that way. The very closely monitored and maintained boundaries of their physical relationship didn't really waiver.
I always attributed this to his reaction to her running off with Jacob, his physical need to reassure himself in the most basic way possible that she was, in fact, alive and well. It is a very common reaction when the one you love is, in your eyes, in danger, a very basic human biopsychological reaction. In Edward's case, he knew that Bella had been in the presence of werewolves, young and unstable werewolves. So, the first thing he needed when he returned to her was to hear her heart skip a beat when he touched her, to feel her warmth pressed against him, to feel her react to him the way she always had. I completely agree that a part of it was an emotional reaction to the idea of losing her to a rival. But, still, I think it was more a reaction to her behavior rather than an effort to fight for her. That's just the way I always saw it.
Cullens_Love, to address your question, I do think that was a part of it. Regardless of Edward's assertion after New Moon, that he is there until Bella orders him a way, I always believed that up until the moment he has to turn her to save her life, a part of him still wants her to run from him, to figure out that he is dangerous and that giving up her life for him is wrong. So, in a way, I think Edward is grateful for Jacob's interference, for his presenting her with a choice. Yes, he's jealous as hell and a part of him wants nothing more than to rip Jacob limb from limb for even thinking of coming between them. But, I think a part of him wants her to see the possiblities of life with Jacob. So, yes, once he is sure she can be safe at LaPush, he wants her to see the possibilities. Plus, Edward maintains from the very beginning that he will always give Bella the choice. And, he does his very best to honor that. This is just another example.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS
Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:New question:
What does Edward and Bella have in their relationship that other couples don't? What makes them unique?
are you referring to couples in general or couples in the book.. like the Cullens?
If it is the Cullens you are referring to.
Jasper and Alice have a very spiritual relationship with each other
Emmet and Rose have a very physical relationship
Carlisle and Esme have a very nurturing relationship
But Edward and Bella have ALL those things. So each of the other couples have bits of what Bella and Edward have. It doesn't lesson their relationships but i think it does makes Edward and Bella's more unique.
"Her existence alone was excuse enough to justify the creation of the entire world."
And, by the way, I adore you... in frightening, dangerous ways.
Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:New question:
What does Edward and Bella have in their relationship that other couples don't? What makes them unique?
Yay!! I love Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 questions!!
First, I heartily agree with you Tricia. It is an interesting aspect to their relationship that they take the best aspects of the couples around them and magnify them. But, I also think that there is another factor. I think it is the connection beyond the supernatural. Bella knows and loves Edward when she is human, when most humans are frightened and shun the Cullens because of what they are, even though they don't truly know that. But, Bella, in full awareness of what Edward is, loves him because of what he is. And, Edward looks at Bella and sees past all of those insecurities that she thinks make her unloveable, and actually loves her because of them rather than in spite of them. It is the ultimate tale of acceptance. Each is loved at least in part because of what they find most unloveable about themself. I find it absolutely beautiful.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS
Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:New question:
What does Edward and Bella have in their relationship that other couples don't? What makes them unique?
are you referring to couples in general or couples in the book.. like the Cullens?
If it is the Cullens you are referring to.
Jasper and Alice have a very spiritual relationship with each other
Emmet and Rose have a very physical relationship
Carlisle and Esme have a very nurturing relationship
But Edward and Bella have ALL those things. So each of the other couples have bits of what Bella and Edward have. It doesn't lesson their relationships but i think it does makes Edward and Bella's more unique.
This is a great answer!
If it's the outside world you're referring to... I find it amazing how Edward and Bella are always able to see the best in each other and furthermore always *want* the best for each other.
Jazz Girl said it well:
Each is loved at least in part because of what they find most unloveable about themself.
