Jacob and Edward's relationship

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Re: Jacob and Edward's relationship

Postby heartscreams » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:46 pm

Esme echo wrote:That's an interesting point. I think it's more accurate to say that Bella needed Jacob and Edward acknowledged and accepted his importance in her life.

I can think of two times in Breaking Dawn where you are absolutely right: when Edward desperately asked Jacob to persuade Bella to let Jacob give her other children rather than keep the baby who was killing her and when Edward asked Jacob--as the true Alpha wolf descended from Ephraim Black--for permisison to bend the treaty and make Bella immortal.

In both those instances, Edward needed Jacob to help protect Bella's life. If we look at it the other way around (Jacob needing Edward to protect Bella's life), there were numerous times Jacob needed Edward. If the whole point of the "neediness" we're talking about is "the need to save Bella," Edward saved her:
    from James
    from the Volturi
    from Jasper
    from Victoria
    from death after Renesmee was born
It's amazing that Bella's bad luck resulted in the need for the talent of two mythological beings to keep her alive! That's some powerful karma!

oooh, you're so good at analyzing!! hahah. though i think Jacob didn't know about James going after Bella in Twilight. and also the Volturi. he knew that she was going to save Edward from the Volturi, but i don't think he expected Edward to keep Bella save from them, because Jacob didn't know much about the Volturi in New Moon. unless you were talking about at the end of Breaking Dawn, then yea, when Bella brought Renesmee forward to meet Aro. hmm.. but i still think that Jacob trusted Bella so much that he didn't need that much help from Edward.

OH! okay, i just remembered another situation where Jacob trusted Edward! during the fighting at the clearing in Eclipse. now there, if Jacob hadn't trusted Edward, he would have stayed with Bella and not joined with the fighting. but he fought with the rest, because 1stly, yea, he's stubborn. 2ndly, he knew right from the start that Bella would be safe no matter what, and this leads to 3rdly, because he trusted Edward to protect her.

and also, during in the tent, i thought it was good that Jacob tried to understand Edward and vice versa. that actually was the kickstart to their relationship.
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Re: Jacob and Edward's relationship

Postby AliceLauren » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:54 pm

I think that in Breaking Dawn mostly, that Jake learned that it's okay to be friends with Edward. Before there was just something there (...wolf pride?) that made Jacob push Edward away.

Edward was more accepting of Jake than Jacob was of Edward. I think that Edward's wisdom he has gained from more that 100 years of being alive gave him some insight into people like Jacob.

I really don't know where I'm going with this... *nervous laugh* Does anyone have anything to add...?
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Re: Jacob and Edward's relationship

Postby Esme echo » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:32 pm

There's been a lot of discussion on this topic over on the Edward thread. Wander on over (pages 50-52)! :D
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Re: Jacob and Edward's relationship

Postby skylarblue » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:47 am

I totally thought that how their relationship evolved was the best plot line that SM came up with.

I think that Edward excepted the reality that Jacob was going to be involved in his, Bella & Nessie's life first. It became apparant that Jacob was going to be around to stay.

I started to cry when Edward called Jacob his brother & son. It just showed how he came to accept the fact that Jacob is here to stay and wants only what is best for Bella & Nessie & that Jacob like himself is willing to do anything for them both.

I'm glad that they have developed some sort of relationship that everyone can live together.
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Re: Jacob and Edward's relationship

Postby I'Anne. » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:54 am

I love how they are always kind of half liking, half hating each other. They always, like, tease each other about stuff, but they can also rely on each other for stuff. The impression it gave me at the end, especially when Edward called Jacob his son and brother, was that it was kind of like; Bella and Edward; Nessie and Jacob. And I think Edward accepts it as such. And he accepts Jacob, because he knows he has no choice and that it's best for every one. And Jacob accepts Edward and is very grateful towards him because he allowed him to have hios happy ending. I think that, in the end of Breaking Dawn, their relashionship is very balanced and healthy.
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Re: Jacob and Edward's relationship

Postby vamps4evr » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:15 am

wishiwerebella010 wrote:The relationship between Edward and Jacob is one that just is SO unpredicable. In my opionon one of the best chapters is the Fire and Ice chapter, it just pretty much summed up all the tension between them. (with the acward love triangle and everything) But i believe the biggest turning point in their relationship is when Edward calls Jacob his son in BD, i admit i shed a tear. It just proved how much their relationship evovled into respect and love.

I have to agree here whole heartedly with this...I think it is fabulous they decided to somewhat be civil....you can see it questioned from time to time, but they both cared for Bella and then Renesmee and they tried to make it work the best they could...then when Edward said to Jacob, ...my son... my heart skipped a beat and I had to stop for a minute and just smile!! Edwards owed jacob a LOT!!!
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Re: Jacob and Edward's relationship

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:06 pm

i totally adore jacob and edward's relationship NOW. i think it wasn't possible before, because of the feelings they both had for bella. and honestly if i were jake, i would LOATHE edward.

i think it's interesting that edward, supposedly the more mature one, bases all his condescension and negativity towards jacob on werewolf prejudice, while jacob, the supposedly LESS mature one, bases it originally on an actual ACTION of edward's (leaving bella in such a state). not that jake isn't prejudiced against the vampires. but let's not forget where the antagonism started for BOTH of them.

their relationship now though is very good. i really like the fact that they were able to come together when necessary, both in the end of eclipse and in BD. i think it shows that they are both very commendable people.

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Re: Jacob and Edward's relationship

Postby twilight1 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:16 am

^^^Actually edward didn't only not like jake because he was a werewolf but because he was jealous of him for awhile as was said in ecipse
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Re: Jacob and Edward's relationship

Postby Esme echo » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:47 am

Just to clear the boards a bit:
on 6 Sep 2007, Stephenie wrote:Here's the thing with Edward's feelings toward Jacob: Edward would be happier it if he could not like Jacob. But Jacob is a good kid and he tries really hard to do the right thing and his number one priority in Eclipse is saving Bella. Edward can't argue with that goal. It's impossible for Edward not to feel a sense of camaraderie with Jacob, and Edward can't help but like and admire him by the end of the story. He knows how much Jacob suffers, and he feels absolutely horrible about that.

When Bella speaks of the guest list veto, she very much means to not invite Jacob. (Sorry for being obtuse there--I totally did not anticipate confusion on that point.) She thinks that if she invites him, he'll feel compelled to come though it will cause him pain. Edward thinks Jacob should have the choice, therefore the "breaking the rules" line. Edward sends the invitation because that is what he would want Jacob to do if Bella had chosen Jake.

Relatedly (is that a word?), when Edward tells Jacob indirectly about the engagement, there is much less bad feeling than seems to be coming across. Edward has just spent the night listening to all of Jacob's hopes and dreams. When he says, "I might actually like you," he truly already does. He already viewed Jacob as a comrade-in-arms in the Battle to Keep Bella Alive, and now he can't help but sympathize, too. While he does want Jacob to know about the engagement for selfish reasons (yes, he's worried that Bella might change her mind), the bigger part of his motivation is to get a warning to Jacob. He knows how invested Jacob is, and how much pain is headed Jacob's way. He wants to give him a realistic picture of what's going on to protect him from getting in deeper. Edward really does respect Jacob quite a bit.

Sometimes the discussion tends to overshadow Stephenie's clear declaration that Edward really did like Jacob. Personally, I don't read condescension in Edward's attitude; others may. I think Edward treated Jacob with respect, but never forgot they were rivals for Bella's affection (over which he was extremely conflicted!).
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Re: Jacob and Edward's relationship

Postby Twilightlover101 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:54 am

I love how they finally got over their differences, prejudices and issues and found a middle line where they even liked each other.
I was, to be honest, shocked, grossed out, understanding, sad, and disgusted all at once when edward made his request. I was shocked because all of eclipse contradicted his request, grossed out because come on he just asked his mortal enemy and the *the other guy* to impregnate his wife, understanding cause i understood that he loved bella soo much he would do anything to ensure she lives, sad because he was so sad and in pain that he would ask such a thing, and disgusted because again come on.
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