Edward Cullen #3

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Jazz Girl
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Post by Jazz Girl » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:10 pm

Heart_in_Hand wrote:First off I want to say that you are absolutely right. Edward and Jasper had quite different backgrounds, and they aren't entirely the same person to be sure. However, I do think they are very similar and I just wanted to add one little thing to your assessment here. Edward can read Jasper's mind. I know Jasper said in MS that that just reading his mind about it isn't the same as living it, and that is true, but there's more to it. Edward may not have lived the wars, but he sees them in Jasper's mind, and anyone else's mind who happens to be thinking about them. Now, Edward is perhaps the most compassionate and introspective character I have ever encountered in a novel and I do not think we should discount how these illustrations would affect him. Nobody knows the cruelness and corruption that dwells in the minds of humans and vampires alike better than Edward. How could he not be wary and pessimistic with the constant reminder of how horrid people can be being drilled into his mind day in and day out? That is why I feel that Edward is at least on the same level as Jasper in that respect and why I think they have a lot more in common than just their quiet and pensive nature.
Fantastic post, Heart_in_Hand. I agree with you 100%. I really attribute both Jasper's and Edward's natures much to the fact that they have such a unique experience of the world. They are, in a way, so much more vulnerable to it than those of us who walk blindly through it. Between the two of them they get a fuller, more visceral experience of what is going on the world round. And, because of their tendency to turn all things inward, to see them as a reflection of themselves, they are effected by it so much more deeply. I really see this as the root cause of why both of them are so hyperprotective of their partners. For Jasper, he's experienced the evil first hand and has finally found hope in Alice. Loosing that, loosing her, is incomprehensible to him. But, at least he has the comfort of knowing that, even where the most vile of things lurk, she isn't in all that much danger.
However, Edward is just doomed. It's almost a reverse of why I think Jasper was so overcome with bloodlust at the birthday party (not only was he dealing with his own cravings, but also the emotional reactions of 5 other vampires all desiring Bella's blood). Edward not only experiences his own thoughts and reactions and horrors at the world around him, but those of everyone else around him. It has to have a kind of magnifying power on the way even his massive vampire mind can process the information. He even says it does in the first pages of MS (talking about feeling double the thirst for another student because Jasper is dwelling on it so much). How then can he not take to heart all of those things two, or five, or ten, or one hundred fold?

As for Edward's strengths and weaknesses, honestly not as easy a question as I thought. It really starts with how you define those terms. If, as Malaz seems to have defined weakness, at least, as the thing that makes him most vulnerable, than Bella would absolutely qualify as #1. It's funny. There was a post on the movie thread about the fact that Rob wasn't in tune with Edward because he hunched his shoulders a lot and Edward, as the strong and confident man he is just wouldn't do that. But, this is precisely why he did that. Yes, Edward is strong and confident. But, Bella can bring him to his knees in a heartbeat and without even trying. And he will gladly stay there for the rest of time, if that's what she needs. That being said, I love your argument, Ariadnee, that she can be/is his greatest strength. It's amazing what love can teach you, isn't it?
Using the same type of definition then, strengths being those things that make him most impervious, the answer there is being a vampire, and all of the gifts that come with it. But, I don't dilute myself into thinking that's what Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 meant. So, expanding the definition to include best and worst character traits, still not as easy as I would think. As far as weaknesses, Edward is an insufferable know-it-all with no concept of gray areas, he blames himself for everything (even things he couldn't possibly have had in a hand in or that just plain didn't happen...Honeymoon anyone?), and he's stubborn as all get out. The list for strengths could go on for a long time. The key is, as LeahRoseLover says, that Edward is, to his core, a good man who will always choose what is right. And, that feeds so naturally into the rest of those things that we love about him; gentility, overwhelming loving and devoted, intelligent, cultured, courageous, with just a hint of mischief hidden in there somewher. ~sigh~ :)
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Post by CrazilyObsessed024 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:13 pm

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:Hello all. Amazing posts as always and I'm going to bring up a similar question that I posted in the Bella thread,
What is Edward's strongest points?And weaknesses/flaws?
Bear with me, I didn't read other's responses first. So sorry if I repeat a lot already said...

Strongest points: Reading minds seems to be awfully helpful, and I think it has given him a better understanding of (normal) human beings' behavior and the way their minds work. Along with everybody else. His intelect is a strong point, seeing as he had so much spare time in which he could learn and improve himself. I love his humor, so I want to add that in. But I don't have much reasoning for it... With Bella he has shown tremendous self-control. And as I do not want this to be too long, I will skip off to weaker points.

Weakest points: His love Bella, for obvious reasons. It makes him irrational and controls him. It brings out some of his less demiable qualities, anger, envy, revengefulness, etc. His over-protectiveness for the people he cares about puts him in difficult spots... And although I said it is a stronger point, I think the ability to read minds causes many problems too. And therefore is a weakness.

I have tons more for each, but those are what immediately popped to mind.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Post by Lunna-san » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:56 am

Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3 wrote:Hello all. Amazing posts as always and I'm going to bring up a similar question that I posted in the Bella thread,
What is Edward's strongest points?And weaknesses/flaws?
Stronger points: He is really a good person. He tries to do the right thing, even if he has to sacrifice himself. Not only for Bella. When he started killing rapists and murderes in his rebellions days, he had this conviction that it was for the best. That he could use his powers and instincts to help people. But killing owned him a high price. He'll never really forgive himself for what he did, even if he saved others.

Weakness: His overreacting tendencies. Edward, sometimes, complicates what it's simple and on his rush to do the right thing, he put his relationship with Bella on the line more than once. He works against himself. He also has this thing about blaming himself for everything bad that happens with Bella. His deep sense of responsability always counts against him, because he feels so strongly that he is a monster that he doesn't deserve being happy. This reminds me of a line of a Lifehouse's song "You gotta love yourself if you can ever love me".

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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Post by Jazz Girl » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:24 am

I apologize for interupting such a great discussion, but while FINALLY getting to read through the SM personal correspondance pages on the Lex blog, I came across something that really just stopped me in my tracks. SM was asked a question about the transformation process. In her reply, she indicates that multiple bites/injections of venom do not affect the transformation process, and in fact would make in more painful because of the higher concentration of venom burning it's way through the person's system. We know from BD that Edward not only injected a syringe full of his venom directly into Bella's heart, but also bit her at different pulse points along her body, sealing the venom in as he went. Following that logic, it could be said that Edward, in fact, transformed Bella in the most painful way possible. I have my own theories and beliefs as to why he went about it the way he did, and in no way do I think it was anything else than what he thought would be the best way to transform Bella. But, here's my question: Based on that assumption, do you think Edward would have done anything different if he'd known? How do you think Edward would have felt if he had understood the amount of pain Bella was in? And, does it in anyway change the way you view Bella's behavior during the transformation? I'll hold off on my opinions until later. Thanks.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Post by ariadnee » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:38 am

It's a little out of the blue, but seemed pertinent, as we were discussing Jasper's relationship to Edward. Jazz Girl, recently you posted that you thought Edward was Jasper's favorite brother, because Edward and Jasper have so many similarities. I believe you, as you know Jasper so much better than I do.

But you also wrote that Jasper would prefer spending time with Edward more than perhaps some of the others. After thinking about it for a while, I'm not certain that would be true. Edward's ability to read Jasper's mind seems to bother Jasper more than it bothers any of the other Cullens - the others have less that they are ashamed of, that they would want to hide. Plus, Jasper can feel Edward's emotions, which until the latter parts of BD, are at best conflicted, and at worst depressed, violent, and suicidal. Jasper smiles at Edward's obvious joy with Bella before the baseball game, but other than that, we don't get a lot of positive feedback from Jasper in the presence of the two of them. I'm not trying to say that Jasper avoids Edward, but it might be that Jasper sometimes prefers the uncomplicated, generally happy demeanor of Emmett to Edward's complicated, brooding one.

I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks about Jasper's thoughts on spending time with Edward. -Ariadnee
Last edited by ariadnee on Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Post by ariadnee » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:44 am

Jazz Girl wrote:but also bit her at different pulse points along her body, sealing the venom in as he went.

Was part of it that he was using his venom to heal places she had been damaged during the birth process?

-Ariadnee
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Post by roseaurora » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:41 am

It might have been more painful, but it sped up the transformation process. The more venom that is present, the quicker it happens. I'm almost positive she mentioned that in the same answer, plus they mention in BD that her transformation didn't take the full 3 days. I doubt that Edward would have changed anything because I would think they all would agree that the quicker it was over with the better. Plus they were still under the impression that the morphine had helped Bella avoid most of the pain.
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Post by Amethyst1 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:52 am

Jazz Girl wrote:Based on that assumption, do you think Edward would have done anything different if he'd known? How do you think Edward would have felt if he had understood the amount of pain Bella was in? And, does it in anyway change the way you view Bella's behavior during the transformation? I'll hold off on my opinions until later. Thanks.
I have a few theories about that as well. 1) He injected venom in as many places as possible to avoid any sudden death, consequently enough Bella was on her death bed. And he wouldn’t/couldn’t ever risk that therefore injected more venom than necessary or as much as necessary. Carlisle said that there are circumstances that venom can not even overcome - assuming Edward knows that very well as he was in the scene, the words would have lingered when it came time to save Bella. 2) We know that the more venom in the body and in main pulse points accelerates the transformation. Edward didn’t want Bella to hurt. . . ever, not even for three days - the idea would have tortured, plagued and ached him. . . Let alone him witnessing that. We know Bella’s transformation lasted a little bit over two days. So Edward was right, by injecting as much venom as necessary the transformation can be sped up 3) All of the above. The third one is the more accurate - to me - knowing the basis of it was the circumstances he was in and his concern for Bella.

No, I do not think Edward would have done anything different if he had known. When he more or less accepted the fact that Bella was going to hurt and bad, there wasn’t anything he could do about it - having experienced that pain beforehand. So in the best logic, having it hurt for as long as three days in slow, torturous amounts? Or have it in less than three days, with fast, torturous amounts? He was thinking for both of them, what was best for Bella - First. always first - and what would make him most comfortable - and the second choice clearly illustrates both desires.

Edward knows Bella very very well - and there is doubt in mind that he believed her when she lied about it. He took in all the most important facts. First was that Bella was so unnaturally still - too still for someone who is suffering from pain at it most extreme. Second, was that Bella never replied to his questions. . . Morphine, while it anesthetises you, it doesn’t make you unable to talk and hear. And we know Edward is very analytical - he was very well aware of how much she hurt but I think he was trying to believe her despite his doubts. I digress - as for his reaction. Just pure pure torture.

I am not sure exactly how you mean by your last question? Care to clarify?

I hope to be able to reply to the Jasper/Edward question later on. School. Nooooo! :(

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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Post by Cymbrelynn » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:07 am

And about Edward knowing whether or not Bella was lying...Since Jasper feels the emotions of those around him and Edward can read Jasper's mind on this (evidence: when Edward tells Bella Jasper is just following her around because of how happy she is...hmm or was that just Edward placating Bella? Hmmmm) Edward would be able to pick up from Jasper that she was in a lot of pain, right? Was Jasper around, though? In the room?
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Re: Edward Cullen #3

Post by ariadnee » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:57 pm

Cymbrelynn wrote:And about Edward knowing whether or not Bella was lying...
I don't think that Edward has that much distrust in him. He's not used to anyone ever being able to lie to him, as even Bella couldn't do so before (too much blushing.) So really this is the first time that he's ever been lied to successfully.

-Ariadnee
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I've written an Edward POV fanfic for New Moon: http://login.fanfiction.net/story/story ... &chapter=1

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